UPDATE: If you haven't seen my debates with Christopher Hitchens, Michael Shermer and Daniel Dennett, you can watch them here. I am waiting for Shermer to post our Cal Tech debate of December 9, which was recorded by his Skeptic Society.
I watched the movie "The Great Debaters" last night, and it helped me to understand why atheists are such bad debaters. The movie portrays four students from a little black college in Texas, and shows how, under the tutelage of their pugnacious coach, they went on to defeat Almighty Harvard. Denzel Washington, who plays the coach, says early in the movie that debate is a kind of bloodsport. It's great virtue is that it puts rival ideas up against each other, as argued by people who passionately espouse those ideas, and then it lets the truth emerge through a kind of gladiatorial elimination.
For about three years, it appeared as though the leading atheists were formidable debaters. But the reason was that Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens were selecting weak opponents and then generally giving them a public whipping. In one staged encounter, hardly a debate, Richard Dawkins ambushed televangelist Ted Haggard for a film Dawkins was making. Not only did Dawkins control the format, he also controlled what was shown on film. No wonder Dawkins got the better of that encounter. Harris took on pastor Rick Warren in Newsweek, where Harris made outrageous allegations and Warren basically said that Christians are nice people because they help AIDS victims in Africa. Again, this was hardly a fair fight. Hitchens promoted his book God Is Not Great by traipsing through the South taking on local pastors. Now your typical pastor is not used to debating a versatile and suave character like Hitchens. A few months ago Hitchens embarrassed theologian Alister McGrath in Washington D.C. One problem is that Hitchens has the Richard Burton accent and McGrath sounds like he just came in from shooting birds in the Scottish highlands. Another problem is that McGrath couldn't handle Hitchens' vitriolic accusations and came off looking conciliatory and weak.
Unlike the characters in "The Great Debaters," I was never part of a debate team. I got my debate practice through confronting critics of my various books. Mostly I learned by taking on such seasoned debaters as presidential candidate Walter Mondale, the literary scholar Stanley Fish, and a whole series of civil rights activists from Cornel West to Jesse Jackson. Prior to my debate with Hitchens, he described me as "one of the most formidable debaters on any topic." Richard Dawkins seems to agree: the great Haggard-slayer has somehow gotten cold feet when it comes to debating me. I guess he's afraid that I'll make him look as ridiculous as Haggard.
Then there's Sam Harris, who tells me that debate is not a very useful medium to arrive at the truth. He didn't seem to think that previously, but now it seems that he too is afraid of looking like a public fool. Harris wants to engage in a written debate, and I've agreed, but it should be noted that written debates allow each side to consult experts and therefore they don't reflect the true spirit of debate, which is the clash of ideas embodied in the most articulate representatives of those ideas. I've suggested to Harris a couple of weeks ago that we do both a written and an oral debate, and I'm waiting to hear his response.
Why are the atheists faring so badly in these debates? I think the main reason is that they are so arrogant. Dawkins, Harris, Dennett and Hitchens really think that their position reflects pure reason and that my position reflects "blind faith." If this were really true they should win every single debate, for the same reason that a round-earth advocate should never lose to a flat-earth advocate. In reality there are good arguments on both sides, and I as a believer know this. I know it's hard to make the case for an invisible God and for an afterlife. In short, I know the strength of the argument on the other side. Leading atheists, however, simply do not expect to hear good counterarguments to their position. When they do, they have no idea how to answer them. So they either erupt into jejune name-calling (all to familiar to readers of this blog) or they slowly fall apart (witness what happened to Daniel Dennett).
In reality, I don't have to win debates against atheists; I merely have to draw. Just by coming out even, I defeat the atheist premise that atheism is the position based on reason and religion is the position based on unreason. Even a tie shows that both positions are reasonable. By defeating atheists in debate, however, I have totally exploded the atheist self-pretense. I have shown atheists to be the unreasonable ones, and this is why leading atheists like Dawkins and Harris are now going into hiding. But if these guys are scared to debate me, even in secular university settings where the audience is largely on their side, what does this say about them and about the soundness of their positions? Perhaps Dawkins and company should go and see "The Great Debaters." They might get some useful tips, and they might also get their nerve back.
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Reader Comments ( Page 4 of 88)
46. "Not only did Dawkins control the format, he also controlled what was shown on film. No wonder Dawkins got the better of that encounter."
Kind of like you on this website. You even take it a step further and declare yourself the winner of these "contests." That is why most people do not take you seriously and consider you a joke. Come on Dinesh, you are an educated and interesting person. You can do a better job. Now don't go and guote just the last sentence. You are becoming the Jerry Springer of blog sites. But, hey, maybe that is what you really are.
Valley Man at 5:17PM on Jan 3rd 2008
47. Andrew,
No I wouldn't say that, lost maybe, unhappy at anyone who loves the lord, ready to let those who love Jesus as their saviour be told how stupid and how outrageous they are. No Andrew no one could accuse you of being that, you haven't tried Jesus I know cause he died on the cross to keep you from having to go through all that toment. Only to believe in him and follow him that is all he ever asks. So I believe we all get what we pay for. Rita
Rtia at 5:25PM on Jan 3rd 2008
48. I like the approach of engaging people who are looking for truth and peace. When I find others who honestly search for truth, even if I do not agree with them or ascribe to their beliefs, at least I can respect them for their honesty and for their search.
D'Souza on the other hand, has a much more difficult job in that he routinely deals with people who do not out saying something is true but rather, they say "I think your premise is false", and they seem not the least interested in searching for truth or peace or love.
Very generally, I believe that God is Truth, and God is Love, and God is Peace, and the Truth will set us free. Regardless of the religion from which they hail, I respect anyone who honestly searches for truth and peace.
Ken Berg at 5:26PM on Jan 3rd 2008
49. This is a FACT , there is a GOD, HE is OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENT, AND OMNI-PRESENT. Man is totally seperated from HIM and totally unable to know HIM, because man is in the absolutely opaque box of spiritual death and sin. He cannot come to this Awesomely Great Triune GOD without the GRACE and MERCY of this GOD drawing him/her to the TRUTH. When this TRUTH comes to man who lives in this opaque box, a life renewing renovating change takes place. He is translated out of darkness into the marvelous light of GOD.
Bruce Battaglia at 5:26PM on Jan 3rd 2008
50. Dinesh, you're incorrect. When I read the word of God, I see repeated appeals to its absurdity. I take on Christians online constantly, and they are typically used to beating weaker opponents. When they meet someone strong, they are at a total loss. If the responses of your loyal readers are typical of the intellectual firepower of the average Christian, I am certain I'm on the right side. It's almost comical, but really sad when you consider the position they have chosen to defend.
Paul at 5:33PM on Jan 3rd 2008
51. Molecular - you've touched on an interesting point. You're surmising that atheists may have a mental block preventing them from believing. You're saying that we are acting on the available information, which points to no God, because we cannot help it. Let's assume that's true for now.
Let's assume we need an experience with the divine in order to believe. Let's also mention that many people do live their entire lives as atheists and die, unbelieving. Agreed to all of that so far?
The only conclusion I can reach with all of this is that God creates certain people as atheists and lets them suffer the consequences, be tortured in hell for eternity, for something that THEY HAD NO CHOICE IN. And this God, you claim, is Good. That is what follows logically from your post.
You will backpedal and say that atheism is truly a choice, that we hear Christ's teachings, realize that it is true, but deliberately turn away. The reasoning being that we don't like to be told what to do. And if you read the writings of certain Christians, D'Souza among them, it's because we don't like to be told how to live our sex lives. Christians seem awfully preoccupied with sexual "sin", but that's a totally different topic.
In truth, I and most other atheists were raised in Christian homes. I was, I had a good relationship with my parents, I attended a Christian school from Kindergarten to High School. I was never diagnosed with any psychiatric illness. I tried, from when I was young until I was a teenager, I tried hard to believe. I thought it MUST be true, why would people waste their lives on something that wasn't true? I didn't reject the evidence, I tried to believe until I couldn't anymore. I sought and I found nothing. If God is going to send me to hell for thinking like that, well, it oculd not have ended any other way.
AndrewV at 5:34PM on Jan 3rd 2008
52. Bruce, You are so SMART, your points are rooted in LOGIC. They way you present your factual case is AMAZING. How do you know it is FACT. Have you and god hung out? DO you have any tangible PROOF
greg at 5:37PM on Jan 3rd 2008
53. llawdee,
i have to say DD hits it right betweeen the old kissaroo on this. it is for sure going to stoke the irate passions of the atheist camp at least here on this blog. DD is right the name calling for christians here range from comical to absurd. the atheist do have a hard time not venting their vomit.
brian at 5:39PM on Jan 3rd 2008
54. There is a bumper sticker out there that says: if you think you are perfect, then try to walk on water.
Well, Flipper the Porpoise can walk on water. And he doesn't say anything nasty (so he can't be a Christian) and he only does good deeds, like rescuing people (so you KNOW he can't be a Christian):>)
Hey, can I debate somebody?
The Goddess Athena at 5:40PM on Jan 3rd 2008
55. Here is another great fact, quoting GOD, "JACOB have I loved but ESAU have I hated" !!! GOD loved one man, yet hated another man. The one man that HE loved obtained all the blessings that this GREAT INFINITE GOD can bestow, while the hated man receives all the anger wrath and judgement that this infinite GOD can also bestow. The beloved man had heard that there was such a GOD and wanted a relationship with HIM and spent his life walking and following after the great truth and promises of this GOD, while the hated man who also had heard the truth of this GREAT GOD wanted nothing of this GOD, but instead pursued throughout his entire life the gratification of his own desires and wants, disregarding the held out truth and promises of this GREAT GOD.
Bruce Battaglia at 5:43PM on Jan 3rd 2008
56. paul,
paul you fancy yourself mighty high. i find this trait so prevalent amongst the atheist. they think they occupy the intellectual high ground. of all the debates i've seen of dd he has handled himself well. as for hitchens, the babbling drunk,dd chewed him to pieces
brian at 5:44PM on Jan 3rd 2008
57. Atheist's don't have a camp. We don't gather on a certain day of the week and try and buy our way to paradise. For me, i get to be in paradise everyday. I love being alive not because of a make believe god, but because I believe in interacting, in loving my family, in trying to better myself every day. I am not angry at any christian, and the majority of atheists on here aren't spewing venom, I see more christian's threatening people and filled with more rage than any atheists.
It is funny to say that atheists are hateful, then go off on a threatening tirade. If you can't see the ignorance in that...
greg at 5:46PM on Jan 3rd 2008
58. Andrew,
In the theology that I understand there are certain individuals that are covered under the blood of Christ but cannot or could not grasp what he was trying to say. I include those like Ghandi, Bertrand Russell, Einstein, Dali Lama etc... Others have said that it appears that 'the gates of hell are locked from the inside'. It is not God who rejects...and casts into hell...it is the individual that rejects and separates himself from the Love of God (a redundancy). I would argue that if you are not separating Love (God)from your life you will not experience hell upon death. From your story it sounds like you really tried to believe...a God of my understanding would not pass a judgment of hell on such individuals.
As I said I am still working on understanding Christ's teachings...go easy on me.
-C
Molecular Biologist - Biophysicist at 5:51PM on Jan 3rd 2008
59. Ya Gahndi just didn't get it. Einstein either, man was he dense.
greg at 5:54PM on Jan 3rd 2008
60. Atheist's don't have a camp. - greg
WTF? Oh man! Then what am I gonna do his weekend?
fabio at 5:55PM on Jan 3rd 2008