Of all the leading atheists, Michael Shermer may be the most affable. I also like Christopher Hitchens, who is terrific social company. But Hitchens tends to play the bad guy in public. I laughed out loud when I saw Hitchens in his trenchcoat on the cover of one of his books. That image made you want to lock the doors and hide the children. Also Hitchens seems almost pathologically anti-religious. What rational person can assert, as Hitchens does in his book's subtitle, that "religion poisons everything"?
Shermer is the editor of Skeptic, columnist for Scientific American, and author of Why Darwin Matters and most recently The Mind of the Market. By contrast with Hitchens in his trenchcoat, Shermer looks like a guy you could trust to take your kids to the park. Shermer is almost congenitally optimistic, and he has none of that chronic nastiness that has come to define modern atheism. (Witness the temperament of some of the atheists on this blog, who provide excellent advertising for the psychological benefits of belief.) Shermer concedes that Christianity has done some good in the world. When asked if religion is a force for good or evil, he answers, "Yes." By this he means that religion is good when it does good and evil when it does evil. Shermer concedes that atheists can be vicious and draw their inspiration from atheist ideologies.
I first debated Shermer at Oregon State in October 2007. Then we debated in Washington DC at George Washington University. Our third and final debate for the year came December 9 at Cal Tech University in Pasadena. The third debate, moderated by the religion editor of the Los Angeles Times, was certainly our biggest and probably our liveliest encounter. There were more than a thousand people in the audience. I understand that lots of Cal Tech professors, and a couple of Nobel laureates, were present. Given the venue, the crowd was disproportionately scientific and technical.
The topics were "Is Religion a Force for Good in the World?" and "Can We Be Good Without God?" The debate ranged widely, however, and included discussions of the compatibility of science and religion, how science supports or undermines theism, etc. My favorite part of these debates is the cross-examination, when each side gets to pose questions to the other. I'm going to be posting on this debate over the next few days, each post accompanied by video footage. So here is the first segment, with me going first and attempting to set the agenda for the evening. Enjoy.
Mo Rocca has appeared on a bunch of shows, including 'The Daily Show,' 'I Love the 80s,'...
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Debating Michael Shermer at Cal Tech
Posted Jan 16th 2008 1:20AM by Dinesh D'Souza
Filed under: Science, Christianity, Controversy, Atheism
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Reader Comments ( Page 6 of 42)
76. You address me as "sir" and "asshole".
Now which is it? Respect or degredation; can you even decide how you should approach and converse with your fellow man? Are you an atheist or a "Christian Hater"? Perhaps an adherent of some form of Thelemic Magick, as I once was. First,
"Opiates" do not fog the mind; some of the world's greatest literature was written under their inlfuence.
I have two atheist friends (who identify thenselves as such). They are both well educated an neither has ever called me an asshole. In fact I am sure they have great respect for my theist position.
garnetmcriff at 1:42PM on Jan 16th 2008
77. Rita, you don't get it! If the principles that those countries live by were followed, there would be no violent conflict. These are allvery diplomatic countries who beieve in solving conflict by pulling out intellectual properties before weapons. You are a perfect example of an undereducated, indoctrinated christian with the wrong priorities. Of course, you would jump to the defense of the corrupt, greedy christian government you support!
emma at 1:25PM on Jan 16th 2008
78. Mac,
We'll never know they never came to anyone's aid. If, you want to see the wonderful, peaceful Japaneese just go over to Hawaii and stand over the battleship that was sunk by these peace loving people. Watch while they snap their little peace loving cameras. Note: Japan took over the Hawaiian Islands we just forgot to notice. Rita
Rtia at 1:27PM on Jan 16th 2008
79. mac, I think brian gets a little toasted in the evening. If it's true, he's kind of a mean drunk but he doesn't remember much of it, maybe.
Clif Kuplen at 1:27PM on Jan 16th 2008
80.
"mac, I think brian gets a little toasted in the evening. If it's true, he's kind of a mean drunk but he doesn't remember much of it, maybe."
Actually, he probably does. He just thinks God was telling him what to do rather than take responsibilty for his own actions. Kind of like DD. It's all those nasty atheists, gays, liberals (etc) fault. Not me!
TIM at 1:35PM on Jan 16th 2008
81. Emma,
Please, inform me as to what Christian has corrupted the government. Last time I checked there were seveal branches of government out there pick one of those to blame. Put the blame where the blame should be. Are these people you and I voted for Christian, I doubt it very much. So all I'm saying is put the blame where the blame should go. If you vote then are to blame for their actions good or bad? Nope that's the beauty. We don't have the responsibility to make sure they do the work and be the honest representative of this country. They too will be held to a higher power. Rita
Rtia at 1:35PM on Jan 16th 2008
82. Emma,
Please, inform me as to what Christian has corrupted the government. Last time I checked there were seveal branches of government out there pick one of those to blame. Put the blame where the blame should be. Are these people you and I voted for Christian, I doubt it very much. So all I'm saying is put the blame where the blame should go. If you vote then are to blame for their actions good or bad? Nope that's the beauty. We don't have the responsibility to make sure they do the work and be the honest representative of this country. They too will be held to a higher power. Rita
Rtia at 1:51PM on Jan 16th 2008
83. Rita,
Without seperation of church and state the government backslides. Do you really want to see people being persecuted (worse than they already are) for being something other than a Christian? Or would you like to see it go a step further than that and see certain sects of Christianity persecuted? It's happened in the past and it will happen again. I, for one, don't want to see it happen here. Even if I agreed with absolutly everything a person said, I would not vote them into office if they were trying to push their religious views on everyone else. They are entitled to believe what they believe, and so is everyone else.
X at 1:37PM on Jan 16th 2008
84. Hmm - my atheist friends are quite personable.
They are also mostly engineers who believe in facts. Dinesh has failed to come up with any facts related to the existence of any god.
We should not "put up" with people that believe in BS and use it stuff things down our throat. It should also not be used to claim tax exemptions.
All they want to do is propogate their churches in a fit of megalomania to take over the planet.
There are too many people on this Earth - religions try to make that situation worse.
Chris P at 1:42PM on Jan 16th 2008
85. garnetmcriff, you seem a little off. You had a response to JerryC, which you somehow attributed to Clif, who had never written to you.
First you say religion is an opiate, then on this page you say it is not.
You say you are catholic, former atheist
Then you mention Thelemic Magick.
You are one confused dude.
Clif will defend himself quite well.........but the reason he called you an asshole was because he had not "spoken" to you.
Try to keep up.
Linda at 1:42PM on Jan 16th 2008
86. You're Obsessive Christian Disorder(OCD)is not much of a foil or nemesis for any common everyday nonproselytizing atheists:we don't even think or talk about it. The people debating you are an absurd bunch of obsessive, invasive atheists that make a living tinkering with their belief in NO GOD. You're both guilty of exposulatingthis inane,unproductive,uninteresting dialectic. You guys act and talk like the cult leader of a band of the righteously over-zealous? Both camps might find more productive topics to debate ie,genesis of monotheism, for example. Anyway,Dinesh, you should know by now that god is an atheist.
boredwell at 1:42PM on Jan 16th 2008
87. emma, i would love to see you debate dd. your arguements are well thought out, your points are made clearly, and you dont seem to get hooked on the name calling and what not. i'm a christian and get offended by many of these braindead so called christians who just blindly follow whatever their preacher/pastor has said. "christians" can be some of the most vicious, hate filled, controdictrary people out there. these people cherry pick scripture and base their beliefs off of a distorted picture. i cant tell u how many "christians" said im gonna roast in hell because im gay but yet say nothing to someone who is divorced and remarried, or someone who wears cloth made of two or more types of seed, or who worships a different god, the list is endless. alright, just wanted to praise your efforts. Jay
Jay at 1:44PM on Jan 16th 2008
88. rita; can you think of a compeling reason why the US has any more right to own the Hawai'ian Island than the Japanese would?
Incidentily, I was suprised to find there is quite a seperatist/independence movement in Hawai'i.
Ryan Anderson at 1:45PM on Jan 16th 2008
89. As far as Norway goes some of it can be traced back to it's roots in in paganism. Which eventually was replaced by Christianity but that new religion did not take a permanent hold. However Norwegians still hold to some of the ancients beliefs, the Vettah for example, Kraken, they do not run all over attempting to convert others so they do not seem "threatening" to the athiestic mindset. Also you do not need a bible to answer questions you can just extract a "rune" from out of the bag.
As for Japan, It is an island nation where people realized this a long time ago and the idea of "let's all get along and not rock the boat". However this getting along regardless of the situation falls apart twice a day. Usually in the early morning and again in late afternoon/early evening. Just ask someone who has been caught in a train station during commuting hours .
M2D5 at 1:50PM on Jan 16th 2008
90. X,
No problem there but, unfortunely doesn't happen that way. When little fourth graders are told not to pray before they eat lunch by the school administration then there is a problem. When the Pledge of Allegiance is going on and Mr. Obama does not put his hand over his heart then sir there is a problem. You know as well as I do that this country was founded on Christian principles and that will never change. Our forefathers had a place for GOD in every man's right of freedom. So please rethink about taking GOD out of America. Who do you think has walked beside us and guided us to do the moral accomplishments that we have done in the past. This is one baby boomer that is going to stand up for GOD,Country, and Freedom in one sentence. Rita
Rtia at 2:05PM on Jan 16th 2008