Of all the leading atheists, Michael Shermer may be the most affable. I also like Christopher Hitchens, who is terrific social company. But Hitchens tends to play the bad guy in public. I laughed out loud when I saw Hitchens in his trenchcoat on the cover of one of his books. That image made you want to lock the doors and hide the children. Also Hitchens seems almost pathologically anti-religious. What rational person can assert, as Hitchens does in his book's subtitle, that "religion poisons everything"?
Shermer is the editor of Skeptic, columnist for Scientific American, and author of Why Darwin Matters and most recently The Mind of the Market. By contrast with Hitchens in his trenchcoat, Shermer looks like a guy you could trust to take your kids to the park. Shermer is almost congenitally optimistic, and he has none of that chronic nastiness that has come to define modern atheism. (Witness the temperament of some of the atheists on this blog, who provide excellent advertising for the psychological benefits of belief.) Shermer concedes that Christianity has done some good in the world. When asked if religion is a force for good or evil, he answers, "Yes." By this he means that religion is good when it does good and evil when it does evil. Shermer concedes that atheists can be vicious and draw their inspiration from atheist ideologies.
I first debated Shermer at Oregon State in October 2007. Then we debated in Washington DC at George Washington University. Our third and final debate for the year came December 9 at Cal Tech University in Pasadena. The third debate, moderated by the religion editor of the Los Angeles Times, was certainly our biggest and probably our liveliest encounter. There were more than a thousand people in the audience. I understand that lots of Cal Tech professors, and a couple of Nobel laureates, were present. Given the venue, the crowd was disproportionately scientific and technical.
The topics were "Is Religion a Force for Good in the World?" and "Can We Be Good Without God?" The debate ranged widely, however, and included discussions of the compatibility of science and religion, how science supports or undermines theism, etc. My favorite part of these debates is the cross-examination, when each side gets to pose questions to the other. I'm going to be posting on this debate over the next few days, each post accompanied by video footage. So here is the first segment, with me going first and attempting to set the agenda for the evening. Enjoy.
Mo Rocca has appeared on a bunch of shows, including 'The Daily Show,' 'I Love the 80s,'...
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Debating Michael Shermer at Cal Tech
Posted Jan 16th 2008 1:20AM by Dinesh D'Souza
Filed under: Science, Christianity, Controversy, Atheism
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Mo Rocca appears on a bunch of shows, including CBS News Sunday Morning (with the indescribably wonderful Charles Osgood), The Tonight Show on NBC, and NPR's Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! He's a sometime judge on Iron Chef and was featured on Telemundo's Amore Descarado. Last year he starred on Broadway in the 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee. His expose "All the President's Pets" was published by Crown in 2004.
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Reader Comments ( Page 7 of 42)
91. Thanks, Jay. I have very little respect for Dinesh, given his past conduct in matters I value, like equal treatment of women, multiculturalism etc. I also find these debates to be fruitless. They address abstract matters, mostly ancient ones and don't focus on what is important now. Let's have a debate on whether christianity values equality today? How about conservationism? Let's talk about how and if christianity is improving this country, if it's progressive.
I know exactly what you are saying and the people you are talking about, most of them probably born-again evangelicals, are becoming a threat to the welfare of this country. There's much I love about America, but indoctrinated patriotism is about as bad as reigious doctrine.
emma at 1:59PM on Jan 16th 2008
92. I am not concerned with who said what, nor with the protocol of blogging, which I'm sure many of you know better than I, I hardly ever do it. Do you really believe I am confused? Or closed minded? Maybe I am stupid too? Probably don't even have a college degree. What disturbs you most is the authoritarian tone and conviction of what I write. There is much more I could say, especially concerning the impasse I had come to when debating one of my atheist friends; the truth is, I really don't have the time. I have one final question to ask all of you. Do you love anyone? Your sons, daughters, lovers, mothers, FATHERS? How do you feel about your Father? Your Daddy? You see, what is lost on even some of the most scholaraly Christians is that the Pharisees hated Christ the most not because he claimed to be the Son of God, but because he addressed Him as Abba. The best translation of "Abba" os not Father.
It is daddy.
garnetmcriff at 2:01PM on Jan 16th 2008
93. With unprecedented cruelty we blew up 2 of their cities, and now they give us Nintendo, Katamari, and Shiba-Inus. Those Japs have class.
Mokele-Mbembe at 2:02PM on Jan 16th 2008
94. Ryan,
Oh, golly I don't know (maybe because it is an American State) Hello, and if you haven't been over there then please spare me the nonsense. 2% are white, all the rest are oreintal. Chinese, Japanese and only God knows what else. I don't know of any other state in the union that if you can't speak the language you can find a job, and I'm not talking about spanish or english. You and your younger generation are going to one day get the most horrible suprise of your life. You will probably get the opportunity to have to fight for it. Hope it all comes out okay for you. Rita
Rtia at 2:03PM on Jan 16th 2008
95. Please, inform me as to what Christian has corrupted the government.
_________________
Is this a joke? It must be...funny, Rita.
As to Hawaii, you are very naive to think that American Imperialism has nothing to do with the annexation of Hawaii. McKinley wanted to gain some ground on the international stage and made that very clear. America also needed Hawaii as a strategic location for warfare against the Philipines. You think we go to war at the drop of a dime because we are a helpful country? Wake up! If there's nothing in it for us, we don't go.
You are far from grasping the motivation behind warfare and kindness and morality are NOT IT.
emma at 2:09PM on Jan 16th 2008
96. Hey, I don't think I called anybody an asshole on this blog.
I do think there may be a rectum or two hereabouts that could stand demoting but it hasn't been submitted as a topic yet.
Some have apparently hit a glass ceiling about midway thru the lower intestine, but that's about it for GI rank-pulling.
pretty much all that's ever brought up here is
atheists and queers and libruls and scientists and infidels are evil, degenerate and out to get us true republican christians who need god to stop us from being evil degenerate infidels and the proof is in the bible that we should govern and say god's doing it.
Seriously, doesn't that about cover it all? The topics and the defense each time?
If anyone wants to add a little, the canon ain't closed yet.
Clif Kuplen at 2:08PM on Jan 16th 2008
97. #92
"With unprecedented cruelty we blew up 2 of their cities, and now they give us Nintendo, Katamari, and Shiba-Inus. Those Japs have class. "
Way to go MM, nice of you to use a racial slur.
If you could not use the term "Japanese" the simpler term "JNs" would have sufficed.
M2D5 at 2:13PM on Jan 16th 2008
98. Rita; The fact that caucasions will become a minority in the US during my life time doesn't phase me in the least. It won't be a "horrible suprise". Sort of looking forward to it, for my child's sake, anyway. Also, here in Florida, you can easily find a job without knowing English.
I sense racist tendencies in you. I still think you mean well. Knowing many of the older generation, I know that you can be a racist and still be a good person. It's just a handicap.
PS: I've been to Hawaii and they should not be a state. They should be independent mainly for the reasons you listed.
PPS: Did you know the founding fathers debated over whether english or german should the official government language. There is nothing sacred about English.
Ryan Anderson at 2:11PM on Jan 16th 2008
99. Clif, I'm pretty sure you covered it :)
emma at 2:13PM on Jan 16th 2008
100. Rtia,
It wasn't the Pledge of Allegiance, it was the National Anthem. Barack was brought up in the tradition of singing to the anthem and saluting the pledge.
I say kids can do their little prayers in school, but secular schools can't sanction prayer.
Mokele-Mbembe at 2:12PM on Jan 16th 2008
101. mokele,
Please spare me the awlful out cry of the A-Bomb. I take it no one here has read any history on World War II. War kills people, like the innocents
who went down in the USS Arizona. 3500 men lost their lives that day in April 7, they weren't doing anything to deserve it but, they still died. Then there was the little thing called the Holocaust. Sorry, but, those were GODS chosen people and I could go on and on but, you would never get it. Just understand that because of all those horrible American who fought and died you have the right to sit and feel sorry for the injustice done to a country that is still being supported by the USA. Rita
Rtia at 2:12PM on Jan 16th 2008
102. Rita,
It was DECEMBER 7th!!!
Mokele-Mbembe at 2:16PM on Jan 16th 2008
103. If, you want to see the wonderful, peaceful Japaneese just go over to Hawaii and stand over the battleship that was sunk by these peace loving people. Watch while they snap their little peace loving cameras.-Rita
-------
Rtia
Can you say Xenophoia?
Go to Hiroshima or Nagasaki before you put down Japan as not a peace loving people. They, more than any, know what hate and revenge accomplish.
mac at 2:38PM on Jan 16th 2008
104. To be fair, the Japanese were Shinto and Buddhist in the 1930's and they were fairly terrible to the Chinese.
But that was nationalism that drove them then, not religion.
It's easy to see nationalism AS a religion though. And it can be just as terrible.
Ryan Anderson at 2:17PM on Jan 16th 2008
105. With unprecedented cruelty we blew up 2 of their cities, and now they give us Nintendo, Katamari, and Shiba-Inus. Those Japs have class
___________________
Well put! As funny as that sounds, it reminds me of this horrible documentary that was shown on HBO a few months back about the atomic bomb drop off Hisroshima. It's called White Light, Black Rain and it's uncensored. I don't think I'll ever get those images out of my head. Talk about a crime against humanity...
emma at 2:21PM on Jan 16th 2008