76. at this point the questioner's head explodes)


Godless Heathen Brian at 7:59PM on Jan 17th 2008

xxx

wow, joe heller jr! Real catch-22. I enjoyed that like I enjoy yogi-isms. We must make sure hank don't kick our asses too.

Clif Kuplen at 10:01PM on Jan 17th 2008

77. Wow, apparently this blog has some intelligent life forms inhabiting it. What a relief. I was beginning to worry about the future of society. Sbanks, I must say that you bring up some very nice arguments. I'm currently to lazy to go search for documentation due to the fact that I was doing homework and decided to check the new very quickly, but I would say that our country wasn't founded completely (key word) on Christianity. Most of the founding fathers were deist or agnostic, which means that they do acknowledge the existence of a creator, but they do not believe that he controls their day to day lives. Because of that, there is definitely some Christian principles instilled in their writings, but they did not intend for it to be a completely Christian nation that only cared about the Christians in it (remember, there were other religions at the time as well). So overall, you are correct on some points and so are the others that have offered counter arguments.

As for the Huckabee quote, in order to do what he says he would have to have the support of Congress and most of the nation. It won't happen. I would like to know where he said this so I could put it into context, but overall it was a bad move on his part.

James at 10:06PM on Jan 17th 2008

78. Huckabee uses his idea of incorporating religion into politics as if it were a benefit, as if it is acceptable in our country. I am a practicing Christian and a registered Republican and I am severely opposed to Huckabee. He stands for all that we have fought to separate from, too much religion in politics? What next? Our Freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, right to bear arms...


Wait a second.
You liberals already started on that one, is this not the same issue!!!
Tell me how you feel you are able to complain about religion in politics (using the Constitution) while, behind your back, you are taking guns from the hands of law-abiding citizens when the right to bear arms is clearly stated in the Constitution. I'll be damned if you are allowed to have it both ways.

My next question is simple, its to all audiences:

Why do you allow Huckabee to ride the 'holy horse' on his way to the White House but have such a HUGE problem with Romney being Mormon, even though he has clearly stated that Mormonism is for HIM, not for our country.

Parker at 10:13PM on Jan 17th 2008

79. You liberals already started on that one, is this not the same issue!!!
Tell me how you feel you are able to complain about religion in politics (using the Constitution) while, behind your back, you are taking guns from the hands of law-abiding citizens when the right to bear arms is clearly stated in the Constitution. I'll be damned if you are allowed to have it both ways.
xxx

who wants it both ways? I believe in the right and perhaps the obligation to be armed and I want that as a hedge against dominionism or other treasonous movement against american democracy.

Also I want it as a hedge against a foreign-owned law enforcement entity as neoliberal republicans are advocating. I expect there will be civil war unless the neoliberal republicanist element backs down or is backed down.

They are unrelated issues except as a foxfart.

Listen to Ed Schulz for example. he's syndicated on most air america stations and progressive stations and he speaks for a lot of us meat eating gun carrying martial arts trained progressives. You forget which party actually WON wars and didn't profiteer from them.

This is more 'you are me' propaganda from the cheerleading draft dodging effete in the present administration - the real cheese eating surrender monkeys as reagan proved in Lebanon and Bush has done with alqaeda.

Clif Kuplen at 10:24PM on Jan 17th 2008

80. "jj, your life is so simple. I'm almost envious until I realize that you've voluntarily lobotomized yourself in order to have it that way."
Goddess Heathen Brian

Since when did having a religion make someone stupid or clueless? You overly smug, 100% sure of yourself, self-serving atheists have more things wrong with you than can be counted.

Lets start with your my-way-or-the-highway attitude; how anyone who believes in a better reason for living or does not share the same depressing attitude as you is considered ignorant and somehow lesser than yourself.
You hiss and jab at religion as if religion itself was some terrible evil. Forget that it provides a excellent set of morals and hope for a life after this, you just hate the fact that some people out their put their faith in a higher being, despite you evidence to the contrary.

You can scream and shout all you want about the 'holes' in my religion but at 8 on Sunday morning, guess where you will find me?

Parker at 10:33PM on Jan 17th 2008

81. "I believe in the right and perhaps the obligation to be armed and I want that as a hedge against dominionism or other treasonous movement against american democracy."

Then maybe it is time for you to tell this to your elected Representatives. I'm sure you have neighbors who disagree. They claim that by making guns illegal their sale will cease, just like alcohol during prohibition and drugs today. Problem solved!

"They are unrelated issues except as a foxfart"

Un-fact. Believe it or not, the 'freedom of religion' and 'right to bear arms' are BOTH written in our Constitution. We are, in fact, dealing with two apples. And you will sit here and try to convince me one is an orange.

More tapdancing from the slavery supporting, voter buying, succession backing sect of American politics not seen in the present administration, but always lurking in the background, betrayed by the spineless elected puppets of our current president.

Parker at 10:52PM on Jan 17th 2008

82. More tapdancing from the slavery supporting, voter buying, succession backing sect of American politics not seen in the present administration

xxxxxxxxxx

this administration supported abramoffs sex slave ring in the south pacific, it caged elections in ohio and florida and elswhere according to sworn testimony in the gonzogate testimony of monica goodling, a crime more egregious than any alleged and wholly unfounded voter buying and bushes succeeded each other. What country are you from?

As to support of american slaves, that was done by the dixiecrats who in 1964, probably before you were born went en masse to the REPUBLICAN party where they remain to this day.

What a pack of lies you have to perpetrate in order to support your habit.

And again, the right to bear arms is unrelated to freedom of religion. Both are constitutional guarantees but as I told you, a stance on one is not an automatic stance on the other as you had apparently thought.

I support strong separation and the right to bear arms as it has been in my life, the former since I was four and the latter for all of it.

You are the tapdancers by claiming conservatism while selling the ranch to the chinese communists, lying us into a war of profit while giving al qaeda and bin laden free passes. In the time it's taken the republicans to screw up iraq the democrats defeated the axis.

Clif Kuplen at 11:21PM on Jan 17th 2008

83. The Young Turk (TYT) quoted Huckabee twice, so twice I heard the same thing....Huckabee wants to ammend The Constitution...when did the definition of ammend get changed to "entirely replaced?" as (TYT) would have us think.

If it weren't for ammendments, woman would not have the right to vote, slavery would still exist, and TYT would not have been able to voice his opinion, or me for that matter....the very first of the ammendments.

TYT goes on to say the new Consitution would be based on what Huckabee interprets the Bible to say...seems to me, TYT just interpreted Huckabee's words to what he wanted them to say...hmmmm
You just lost my trust, TYT.

As for the Consitution not mentioning God's name in it....

The Constituition contains the division of powers. And in the judicial branch, all judges MUST take an OATH or affirmation before taking office, per the Constitution. Under the judge's oath, they are required to say, "...So help me God." So, though God is not actually mentioned in the Constitution itself, God was obviously on the founding father's minds. Just because the name God is not written in my math book, it doesn't mean 2+2 doesn't still equal 4.

I would never want to lose my right's to freedom, including my right to choose my belief in God.

In recent years, in our country (which I still believe is the best) there has been more and more seperation of God and state. In recent years, our country has been runnimg amok...coincidence?

DB at 11:48PM on Jan 17th 2008

84. "And in the judicial branch, all judges MUST take an OATH or affirmation before taking office, per the Constitution. Under the judge's oath, they are required to say, '...So help me God.'"

Nope. That is NOT required.

From the US Constitution:

Article. VI. - Debts, Supremacy, Oaths
All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but ***no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.***

Tatiana at 12:52AM on Jan 18th 2008

85. Mike Huckabee shows why I am a Methodist and not a Southern Baptist.

As a Methodist, if people want to take the Bible literally (despite the many contradictions), that's fine. If people would prefer to be immersed as a young adult, rather than have a sprinkling baptism as an infant, that's fine.

If people want to cross themselves and pray on kneelers in church, that's also fine.

Southern Baptists think they have a monopoly on the truth and think their way is the only way.

Kent at 1:28AM on Jan 18th 2008

86. WHAT KIND OF MORAL STANDARD DO YOU ATHEISTS PROPOSE TO IMPOSE ON THE WORLD? ALL LAW IS BASED ON MORALITY. AMERICAS LAWS ARE BASED ON JUDEO-CHRISTIAN ETHICS. WOULD YOU WANT A TO LIVE IN NATION THAT REJECTS INTEGRITY, HONESTY, FIDELITY, JUSTICE, PROTECTING AND DEFENDING THE HELPLESS AND INNOCENT? WHO COULD YOU HIRE? WOULD YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A NATION THAT SPENDS MORE TIME TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE MURDERER OR WOULD YOU RATHER LIVE IN A NATION THAT PROSECUTES THEM? WOULD YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A NATION THAT ACCEPTED PEDIOPHILLIA AND RAPE OR DO YOU FEEL THAT EVERY EVIL INTENTION WITHIN THE HEART OF MAN SHOULD BE EXPRESSED? LIBERALISM WAS INVITED TO WEAKEN DEMOCRACY BY:

1. CREATING MEDIA SPIN THAT GLORIFIES SELF-INDULGENCE AT THE EXPENSE OF FUTURE GENERATIONS,

2. GLAMOURIZING A LIFESTYLE OF WRECKLESSNESS AND ADDICTIONS TO PORNOGRAPHY, ALCOHOL, AND DRUGS.

3. DEMONIZING THOSE STICK TO ABSOLUTE TRUTH FROM THE BIBLE or those who respect it

4 CREATING the necessary conditions of idleness, meaninglessness, and worthlessness so that our citizens lose their desire to challenge the surrounding peer PRESSURE to conform to a pattern of dysfunction promoted as entertainment daily as well an invasion of socialism.

The social engineers developed and promoted philosophies of self-indulgence and self-gratification at the same time advertised drug use, alcohol, and sex literature in order to create the necessary conditions of idleness and worthlessness in the next generation so that they would lose their fight to think for themselves about the value of truth and lose their sense of patriotism. New songs would be created and developed to celebrate the wildness and rebellion of youth and distain all forms of restraint except to manipulate others for their own political power in order to strip children away from healthy relationships with their fathers and mothers.

This process has been going on since Marxism was introduced in the former Soviet Union and Europe. In 1933 it was introduced in America by those connected with the Masonic organizations and the communist inspired ACLU continue to legally defend and impose their secular humanistic religion on all Americans to this day. There are even members within our US congress who are apart of what is called the Socialist progressives. They have already taken legislative steps to destroy this democratic republic. Have you not noticed that in the past 25 years even the concept of patriotism has been scathed and devalued in the socialist inspired Public Media outlets, politicians, entertainers, and college professors.

http://evolutionfact.townhall.com

FORMER ATHEIST at 2:54AM on Jan 18th 2008

87. MORE DISINFORMATION FROM THE BIN LADEN SUPPORTING YOUNG TURKS!

HUCKABEE BELIEVES THAT SUBMISSION GOES BOTH WAYS NOT ONE WAY. THE HUSBAND GIVES 100% OF HIMSELF TO SUPPORT HIS WIFE and THE WIFE GIVES 100% TO SUPPORT HER HUSBAND.

BOY OH BOY. THESE YOUNG TURKS ARE REAL LOSERS and ARE COMPLETELY OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY. IT IS NOW CLEAR TO ALL THAT THEY HATE DEMOCRACY AND HATE HEALTHY AMERICAN FAMILIES. SHAME ON THEM.

http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com

FORMER ATHEIST at 11:59PM on Jan 21st 2008

88. "AMERICAS LAWS ARE BASED ON JUDEO-CHRISTIAN ETHICS."

WRONG. This has been refuted over and over again. Ethics predates Christianity, and our laws are in no way based on Christianity.

BTW, before you bash atheists, check the stats. Atheists have LOWER rates of divorce than Christians do. While about 7% of the population is atheist, .21% of those in prison are atheist.

Liberals and atheists do NOT approve of murder, rape or pedophilia. Apparently many Christians don't have a problem with it.

Before you toss around stupid statements about liberals, you should educate yourself as to what the word means. LIBERALISM: political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties.

Tatiana at 3:35AM on Jan 18th 2008

89. You hiss and jab at religion as if religion itself was some terrible evil.
--------------------------------
EXACTLY!!! NOW you get it! About time!

It's SO terrible and sneaky that it's believers are utterly unaware of it! Now THAT'S evil!

Godless Heathen Brian at 11:19AM on Jan 18th 2008

90.
WHY DID GOD LIE???

This is what we've figured out by ourselves, with our own eyes:

The Earth is at least 4.5 BILLION years old, if not as much as 6 billion.

The Universe is at least 13 billion years old, if not more. Possibly much more.

Starlight coming from the very nearest of the stars, traveling at 186,232 miles per SECOND, takes about 4 1/2 YEARS to get here from there. A long way off

The farthest stars are 13 billion light-years away. The light that we see coming from them is 13 billion years old. How did God make it, if the universe is young? In mid-space traveling to here so we'd think it were old? He thinks of everything, that deceptive, cagey God of ours. What a good liar! Of course He is, He's good at everything.

Dinosaurs died 65 million years ago. But many species became our birds. Seriously. The birds are the remnants of the dinosaurs. It's easy to see that if you really look at it.

First "people" (Ramipithecus) 10 million years ago or less. Three feet high.

First appearance of Homo Sapiens (That's us): about 130,000 years ago. Or more. A lot longer than the bible tells us.

First human civilizations, villages, towns etc.: 130,000 years ago or more

Recorded History: About the last 5000 years or so. Mere moments, when you look at how long we have been here. We've been here 26 times longer than we've written about it. WOW!!!!!!!

Christ: If He lived, about 2000 years ago.

Christianity, about the same obviously.

One Hundred and Thirty Thousand Years of people being pretty much the same as we are today, sans our technology of course. We really know about only 5000 or so of those, except for archeological digs. Only two thousand years of it under Christianity. And even today, this minute, there are over 600 living religions on this world. Multiply that by two hundred thousand years. A HECKUVA lot of religions and belief systems. All of them claimed to be the one, true religion, too. But we're the right ones. Yeah. We got it right, finally. Sure we did.

One can see how unlikely it is that the Bible is correct. By many, many different yardsticks it doesn't measure up to the easily observable facts. So, it's not literally true. Simple answer to a simple question.

My original question was, "Why did God lie to us?" By this I mean, if He put things here that point clearly to the Bible truths not being true at all, isn't that a deception? However, if the Bible isn't true, and if He was responsible for the text of the bible, He lied there. So, either way, dishonesty from God.

The only other option possible is that science is right after all, and the Bible is allegorical, which doesn't reduce its beauty or value one whit. But many Christians will accept nothing less than complete victory in this argument. Their way or the highway. Afraid that if the Bible isn't true word-for-word, then their Faith means nothing. That, to me, is the real sin here.

Christians = children scared in a self-imposed darkness.
Science = The Light Switch

Now go forth and multiply. Oh, and divide, subtract, and add as well. Get some education, come back, and then we can have an adult conversation. Tell me why God lied.

Godless Heathen Brian at 11:28AM on Jan 18th 2008