Over the past couple of weeks an especially determined atheist has been writing me, offering me $1000 if I can make God appear to Him in such a way that he can see and touch Him. The atheist just finished reading my book What's So Great About Christianity and it disturbed him, because it challenged his assumptions. Still, he demands unquestionable empirical confirmation. If I can only make God show his face, my correspondent sarcastically suggests, he would be happy to join the ranks of the believers.
In some ancient religions, where gods were considered to be made of the same material substance as other matter, this would be a reasonable (or at least a meaningful) challenge. But all the great religions, and certainly the Abrahamic ones, regard God as an immaterial spirit. If the atheist is willing to consider the possibility that such a God exists--as all open-minded atheists must do--then the question becomes: how can we know of the existence of immaterial things?
Scientists believe in immaterial things. How about gravity? I should write back my betting friend, offering him $1000 if he can make gravity appear to me in such a way that I can see and touch it. But of course he would indignantly reply that gravity is a force, and the existence of forces cannot be verified through direct sensory experience. Rather, their existence must be inferred through their effects. We know that something is making objects plummet to the earth. We know that something is causing the light from the sun in certain cases to bend. That something we call gravity.
Or consider dark matter and dark energy. I haven't seen them, and I bet you haven't either. In fact, no one has. The reason they are called "dark" is because they don't emit light. So how can we reasonably believe in such invisible, immaterial things? The existence of dark matter is inferred from its gravitational effects on visible matter. The existence of dark energy is inferred from the accelerated rate at which galaxies are flying away from each other. Scientists reason that something is holding galaxies together, and something else is causing them (and space itself) to fly apart. These somethings we call dark matter and dark energy. Interestingly scientists believe that dark matter and dark energy make up more than 90 percent of all the matter in the universe.
Applying the same mode of reasoning, I would argue that some immaterial force caused the universe to come into existence. Here is the proof: a) All material things that have a beginning must have a cause, b) We know from the Big Bang theory that the universe (not just matter but space and time itself) had a beginning, c) Therefore the universe has a cause.
Now that cause can be natural or supernatural, but we can rule out a natural cause since the universe encompasses all of nature. It is simply ridiculous to say that nature, which once did not exist, somehow caused itself to come into existence. Some people like to talk about "multiple universes" or even an infinity of universes but they have to admit that they are just making those up: there is no empirical evidence whatsoever that any universe exists except our own. Much of this kind of talk seems to be a desperate way of trying to get around the idea of God. It's faith-based atheism.
It's must more reasonable--and, invoking Occam's razor, much more intellectually parsimonious--to believe that the universe came into existence because of a non-natural or (as theists would say) supernatural cause. That cause we call God.
Reader Comments ( Page 5 of 33)
61. "I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind." - Einstein, 1929
"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." - Einstein, 1950
K at 1:57PM on Jan 28th 2008
62. This is wrong. In fact, Einstien didn't believe in God for most of his life. However, the design he found everywhere, and the elegant rules of the universe convinced him that there must be a God/designer.
There is nothing so horrible as the murder of a beautiful theory ... by a brutal gang of facts.
Caesar
Thomas J Gassett at 1:51PM on Jan 28th 2008
xx
yes, gang of facts, not one half assed unproven irrelevant assumption that changes nothing of reality. Who gives a shit what einstein believed? His work was mathematical, not faith based. Do you ever think before you post?
Clif Kuplen at 1:59PM on Jan 28th 2008
63.
ATHEIST
I understand that it is difficult for Christians to accept that their precious religion is only a scam, an End of the World cult that missed its' original deadline 1,900 years ago.
Maybe if you look at a New Age scam, you'll be able to recognize the signs.
______________
From another site:
Book Description
"Ask and It Is Given," by Esther and Jerry Hicks, presents the teachings of the nonphysical entity Abraham.
Abraham's advice will help you learn how to manifest your desires so that you’re living the joyous and fulfilling life you deserve.
Because this material is channeled... includes much advice on working with energy and emotions as well as specific chapters on increasing prosperity, reclaiming health, working with meditation, and clearing clutter for clarity. For those who are onboard with the "Laws of Attraction" and the "Art of Receiving" that Abraham speaks of, this could be one of those deliciously mysterious books that you can open to any page and it seems to offer the exact advice or insight you need right now.
___________
A Con Man thinks the money in your pocket actually belongs to him... and he's searching for the easiest way to make you hand it over.
Like a nonphysical entity named Abraham who tells you how to get rich.
William Hays at 2:14PM on Jan 28th 2008
64. Clif,
I agree that the dark matter is likely to exists. The evidence supports it. I'm just not ready to say I saw a picture of it when there is still speculation. I think there are going to be huge advances in the near future, but I also think there are going to be some huge shakeups.
"The tragedy of religion is its need to control through suppression of science and information."
I can agree that religion shouldn't (and doesn't need to) suppress science and information.
bigTuna at 2:06PM on Jan 28th 2008
65. We will give you much more than what is being presently being offered, Desouza "if you can make God's father appear" after all we cannot make Gravity appear,or may be Gods mother,then we can be sure that he is the son ,or is gravity "God".It cannot be proven by any human who is a by-product of creation.The tooth fairy cannot be seen as other examples you offer,then, is the tooth fairy real-and a God?
Kevin at 2:11PM on Jan 28th 2008
66. A man in a check out line was in front of me last night. He was buying some luchmeat, bread, and had a couple of other things. He came up five bucks and some change short. Digging in his pockets for money he didn't have. He told the cashier he had to put some items back.
Feeling sorry for the guy because he was buying FOOD. I gave the cashier the money, and told him I had it.
He replied thank God, and thank me. My question is did he go to the counter already praying because he knew he didn't have enough money. Surley he knew he didn't have enough, but had faith enough that he would get the food anyway.
I am not a believer. I just seen a person that was hungry, and I was in a hurry. So if he's in that bad of shape, and had that much faith. Why is he in that bad of shape?
TheSourc at 2:12PM on Jan 28th 2008
67. Ray Ingles; "Besides which, we have never, ever, seen mass/energy be created or destroyed"
This is not, strictly speaking, true. We have observed matter being 'created' so long as an equal amount of antimatter is created at the same time. Quantum fluctuations in a vacuum is an example. Positrons (electrons antimatter particle) have been observed.
a born atheist at 2:11PM on Jan 28th 2008
68. Ray Ingles; "Besides which, we have never, ever, seen mass/energy be created or destroyed"
This is not, strictly speaking, true. We have observed matter being 'created' so long as an equal amount of antimatter is created at the same time. Quantum fluctuations in a vacuum is an example. Positrons (electrons antimatter particle) have been observed.
a born atheist at 2:12PM on Jan 28th 2008
69. Tuna, at #62, I think we're on the same page. It's a great time to learn new stuff!
Clif Kuplen at 2:15PM on Jan 28th 2008
70. Finally a post from Dinesh that I can understand and think about. There are a lot of things I can't see or touch that I believe to be real. And I don't necessarily have to touch or feel the proof of the existence of a god to become a believer. But, to have virtually no proof, no substance except stories passed down from generation to generation and tales that amount to horrific stories of war and famine and plagues and sacrifice. Stories not unlike any of the other mythic tales of the Greek or Roman gods.
Proof of our own existence, lends to the belief that the possibility of other universes or sentient beings might actually exist somewhere in the vastness of outer-space.
That being said, I'm not going to pray to those supposed beings, thinking that they might have had a hand in my ultimate existence.
I don't believe in a god. Just like I don't believe in men from mars, although there are people who swear they have seen aliens from outer-space. I don't believe in ghosts, even though there are those who make a living out of researching their existence. What does it matter in the scheme of things? Why do I have to believe? Why do those of faith feel that those of us who don't believe - need to come to our senses? My not believing has no bearing on the lives of the religious. If I believe in the vastness of the universe and that it hold immense power, what does that mean to a theist? Have I somehow admitted that I believe in a god? What if I just acknowledge that there are things that I don't know, that I have to take on faith (so to speak)? Like, how cell phones work! I don't know how in the name of AGB the cell phone works, but I'm sure that some human has an explanation that I wouldn't understand if it was explained by a fifth-grader (I hear they are more intelligent than we adults thought).
No Dinesh - I still don't believe. I guess it just comes down to
- Do I need to???
TJ at 2:18PM on Jan 28th 2008
71. "55. Dark matter and dark energy are hypothesized to exist.
xxx
tuna, it's demonstrated mathematically as you know, and there is also photographic evidence. It's on aol. Of course, it's the effect of dark matter, but it is exactly where the physics says it should be, isn't it?"
For those of you who don't know, dark matter is observable by radio telescope. It is not just based on a mathmatical theory.
a born atheist at 2:17PM on Jan 28th 2008
72. 54. JC Himself,
What are your plans for Easter? Wanna "hang out"?
Mokele-Mobembe at 1:46PM on Jan 28th 2008
---
I don't get no respect. (Don't make me cross at you, nyuk nyuk)
And that reminds me of another thing. I come down, suffer and die on that thing, and two thousand years later I come again and everybody's wearing one around their neck. It creeps me out. Its like that stupid horrible Mel Gibson film. I came down and said all that good stuff, and this is what you remember? Is my name a front for a cult of sadists now?
Jesus Christ Himself at 2:18PM on Jan 28th 2008
73. 51. bigTuna,
DD, JC and G-d are not the things I think about in the shower.
Mokele-Mobembe at 1:43PM on Jan 28th 2008
xxx
clean mind, clean body.....take your pick.
Clif Kuplen at 2:29PM on Jan 28th 2008
74. I thought I did see God on television once, but it turned out to be Kate Moss.
Hey, is it possible that she IS God?????
JerryC at 2:31PM on Jan 28th 2008
75. #58
"The entire electromagnetic spectrum is easily detectable and made visible if need be, and that's only one source of measurement."
It is true about the detectability using measuring devices but how do you make it visible?
I know how VSWR is created with microwave devices,what its components are, how to measure it, even how to tune for it and cancel it out. However, please explain how one would make it visible other then a reading on a meter or waveform on an oscilloscope?
M2D5 at 2:33PM on Jan 28th 2008