Atheists can break out the champagne: there really are some wacky religious people out there. One of them seems to be Rowan Williams, the archbishop of Canterbury. In a recent speech Williams ruffled a lot of feathers--it is not Anglican custom to ruffle a lot of feathers--when he said it "seems unavoidable" that Muslim holy law or sharia is coming to Britain. Not only that, but our bearded, bespectacled cleric even thought that this would be a good thing because it would foster social cohesion.
While conceding that "nobody in their right mind would want to see in this country" some of the "extreme punishments" and "attitudes toward women" that prevail in certain Muslim countries, Williams called for a "constructive accommodation with some aspects of Muslim law." So: no chopping off limbs and no honor killings. Williams argued, however, that other issues such as marital disputes and financial matters could be handled not by the British legal system but by Muslim sharia courts. All of this would have the beneficial result, in Williams' view, of meeting the distinctive needs of Muslims. Williams argued that Muslims should not have to choose between "the stark alternatives of cultural loyalty or state loyalty."
Now if this sounds absurd to you, and a little dangerous to boot, ask yourself: where have I heard this before? What we are getting from Williams is not religious craziness but liberal craziness, not theological error but multicultural reductio ad absurdum. The multicultural premise is that classical liberal rules that apply equally to everyone nevertheless discriminate against racial and cultural minorities that don't want to play by those rules. Consequently equality of rights for individuals must give way to equality of consideration for groups. Otherwise minorities will feel disenfranchised even in a society where there is equal treatment for individuals under the law. This is what Williams means when he says that Muslims should not have to sacrifice cultural loyalty in order to be loyal to Britain.
So what is our woolly-headed archbishop suggesting: office breaks for Muslims to pray five times a day? Jihadist history month? Overlooking the occasional polygamous marriage in the Muslim community? No one really knows because Williams didn't really say. And when several people expressed shock at Williams' words and called for his resignation, Williams finally acknowledged that he had spoken "clumsily" and with a "misleading choice of words." Even so, he added that while he did not favor creating "parallel jurisdictions" for sharia and secular courts, he thought that "additional choices" could be opened to Muslims. On what precisely those choices might be, Williams maintained a Sphinx-like silence.
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Anglican Archbishop Embraces Sharia Law
Posted Feb 15th 2008 1:09AM by Dinesh D'Souza
Filed under: Islam, Christianity, Bizarre, Atheism
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Reader Comments ( Page 3 of 25)
31. Mokele, nothing like "The Final Countdown!"
It figures that Dinesh would equate "wacky religious people" to the everyday liberal and/or atheist in order to defend his ridiculous stance on his own misinterpretation of multiculturalism.
Noone in their right mind, regardless of denominaton or political orientation would be in favor of duality in the legal system. What next? A separate court for every religious denomination out there? Great, then we can finally drop the discussion about displays of religious symbols in inappropriate places and instead have a country made up of a thousand+ little theocracies. I guess atheists will be the only ones left valuing the constitution...oh wait, they already are!
emma at 10:57AM on Feb 15th 2008
32. AndrewV,
CHECKMATE! Wait, DINESHISM?! What have I DONE?!!! Must I call for an intervention?
Linda,
"The physical punishments are another story altogether. "
I believe in the death penalty and that the penal system should have a place for surgical castration. It's extremely effective, and humane enough to do on puppies.
Mokele-Mobembe at 10:59AM on Feb 15th 2008
33. Mr. D'Souza, it IS religious craziness and you know it. Sharia law is no less barbaric than Old Testament law with its stoning to death for the most petty of so-called "offenses" to "God" and the sanctioning of human slavery. No need to elaborate - it's all in the Bible - you've read it. They are the passages that no preacher, priest, pastor, reverend, or minister ever mentions in any sermon. Ever.
This isn't something that any atheist of agnostic is going to "break out champagne" for. You state it as if this is the ONE stark example of religious wackiness that has reared its ugly head recently. I, and millions of others see it constantly. Presidents and presidential candidates that claim that "God" spoke to them and told them to run for office and invade other nations. Presidential candidates claiming that the Constitution should be changed to be aligned with "God's rules". Presidential candidates that claim that the Constitution establishes the United States as a Christian nation. Presidential candidates that refute science and believe evolution to be completely false yet believe that men can live in fish's stomachs for days and that snakes and donkeys can speak. Christian church organizations protesting at dead American soldier's funerals. Federal and state government officials attempting to push Christian dogma into public schools as the curriculum for ALL students regardless of their religious views or their parents religious views. I can go on and on and on. You find the thought of living under Sharia law as ludicrous and frightening, understandably. Well, I and millions of others find the thought of living under ANY form of religious law just as ludicrous and frightening. You would agree, with the exception of Biblical law because that happens to be YOUR particularly favorite religious flavor.
Frank at 11:02AM on Feb 15th 2008
34. I guess we should start calling all of Dinesh's supporters here D'Souzists.
Strados at 11:12AM on Feb 15th 2008
35. Mo: The death penalty churns my stomach when I think of those convicted who are actually innocent (often they are not choir boys, if you know what I mean).
Doggies don't get castrated, they get de-testicled. (I guess I always think of castration as penis amputation) (Technically you are correct) (Why am I writing this?) (Maybe I just like writing "penis"?) Some of those child abusers deserve to be locked up for society's sake, though. Too many repeat offenders, and sometimes escalates to murder.
Linda at 11:14AM on Feb 15th 2008
36. Frank,
"believe...that snakes and donkeys can speak."
Isn't that what politics is?
emma,
"The Penultimate Countdown" comes close, but not quite as far.
Strados,
We were just fine calling them Idiots. Why rock the boat?
Mokele-Mobembe at 11:16AM on Feb 15th 2008
37. "I don't know if you're implying that there is one "true" Christian faith or not, and which one that would be."
There is one true Christian Faith. It is called Christian Faith.
Catholicism
Mormonism
Evangelicals
and every other one, are man made religions. They were created for the sole purpose of Control and Profit.
It wasn't supposed to be this way. But it is.
True Christian Faith is having a "Personal" relationship with God.
Islam is essentially a copy cat version of Christianity. The sects that they have are man made as well.
I consider Islam a man made Religion formed from the Bible.
There is no Christian God or Muslim God or any other God. It's just God.
And believing in Him or Knowing Him has nothing to do with whether or not you are a good person.
The hardcore fundies don't understand that.
I do.
Botts at 11:19AM on Feb 15th 2008
38. I've noticed that DD has a real antipathy for multiculturism. He seems to think that all people who immigrate to the US must assimilate and absorb into US "culture" and shed their own cultures. Really weird for an Indian immigrant.
The doctor I'm currently working with is of Indian heritage, born here, quite Americanized, but still very cognizant of her culture; her in-laws are much more "traditionally" oriented, which is sometimes difficult for her, but she is deft at bridging the two cultures.
DD must be self-hating.
Linda at 11:20AM on Feb 15th 2008
39. Being a good person is being a good person regardless of how you get there.
a born atheist at 11:21AM on Feb 15th 2008
40. Linda,
The life sentence churns my stomach when I think of those convicted who are actually innocent, and the guilty whose everyday meals I pay for. Doesn't America have the highest per capita incarceration ratio?
I probably mix up my neutering terminology, but I think you just like using the word "penis". It's like a cathartic action. Heck, I like the way you write it, do it again.
Mokele-Mobembe at 11:25AM on Feb 15th 2008
41. Botts, I just finished reading Sam Harris' "Letter to a Christian Nation", and he says the same about the Islam religion: everything is borrowed from Judaism, Christianity, and other religions.
Like many Christian religions, Islam is about "obedience to God". Period. Most everything in the Qu'aran describes the necessity of obedience.
All of the "obedience" and "worship" demands probably arise from the traditional relationships between slave and master, monarch and subject.
What kind of ego demands worship and obedience day in and day out? The kind that must hold power over masses.
It's all about power, in the end.
Linda at 11:26AM on Feb 15th 2008
42. Botts,
Very well put. I'm always hung up with Christianity for only one point really, the whole Jesus part. If it weren't for that, I'd agree a whole lot more with Christianity...but until they stop worshiping a man as a god, I can't condone it.
And note to all Christians, I am NOT going to debate with you about how he was 1)the son of god 2)our savior 3)the last prophet or 4)part of a holy trinity. If there was evidence of ANY of that, (OTHER than what's written in a fiction book), I'd give credit where it is due. But until then, don't wate your finger strength typing lengthy arguements.
Strados at 11:27AM on Feb 15th 2008
43. Josiejo: A truly personal religion has as many denominations as it does adherents.
"They are non-negotiables, not subject to personal interpretation or cultural influences." -I agree with this statement completely. If God exists, you can't negotiate with him.
So: religion is personal, but not open to personal interpretation. That is a terribly fine line to walk. Suppose you have a deeply felt conviction about something, but it wasn't in line with God's absolutes. For example, suppose you don't see anything wrong with premarital sex, but God does. Suppose in all other respects you live a Christian life, but you truly do not feel the conviction that this is wrong. How does one discover if what they are following is actually true?
AndrewV at 11:27AM on Feb 15th 2008
44. Mokele:
penis penis penis
penis penis penis
That was fun
Linda at 11:27AM on Feb 15th 2008
45. Botts: "Islam is essentially a copy cat version of Christianity."
What are you trying to do, get a fatwa called down on you? j/k
Linda: "Like many Christian religions, Islam is about "obedience to God". "
Any religion that believes in a God that judges, punishes, and rewards is all about obedience. If God is real, then you can't just "be a good person". You gotta follow his rules.
AndrewV at 11:41AM on Feb 15th 2008