Atheists can break out the champagne: there really are some wacky religious people out there. One of them seems to be Rowan Williams, the archbishop of Canterbury. In a recent speech Williams ruffled a lot of feathers--it is not Anglican custom to ruffle a lot of feathers--when he said it "seems unavoidable" that Muslim holy law or sharia is coming to Britain. Not only that, but our bearded, bespectacled cleric even thought that this would be a good thing because it would foster social cohesion.
While conceding that "nobody in their right mind would want to see in this country" some of the "extreme punishments" and "attitudes toward women" that prevail in certain Muslim countries, Williams called for a "constructive accommodation with some aspects of Muslim law." So: no chopping off limbs and no honor killings. Williams argued, however, that other issues such as marital disputes and financial matters could be handled not by the British legal system but by Muslim sharia courts. All of this would have the beneficial result, in Williams' view, of meeting the distinctive needs of Muslims. Williams argued that Muslims should not have to choose between "the stark alternatives of cultural loyalty or state loyalty."
Now if this sounds absurd to you, and a little dangerous to boot, ask yourself: where have I heard this before? What we are getting from Williams is not religious craziness but liberal craziness, not theological error but multicultural reductio ad absurdum. The multicultural premise is that classical liberal rules that apply equally to everyone nevertheless discriminate against racial and cultural minorities that don't want to play by those rules. Consequently equality of rights for individuals must give way to equality of consideration for groups. Otherwise minorities will feel disenfranchised even in a society where there is equal treatment for individuals under the law. This is what Williams means when he says that Muslims should not have to sacrifice cultural loyalty in order to be loyal to Britain.
So what is our woolly-headed archbishop suggesting: office breaks for Muslims to pray five times a day? Jihadist history month? Overlooking the occasional polygamous marriage in the Muslim community? No one really knows because Williams didn't really say. And when several people expressed shock at Williams' words and called for his resignation, Williams finally acknowledged that he had spoken "clumsily" and with a "misleading choice of words." Even so, he added that while he did not favor creating "parallel jurisdictions" for sharia and secular courts, he thought that "additional choices" could be opened to Muslims. On what precisely those choices might be, Williams maintained a Sphinx-like silence.
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Anglican Archbishop Embraces Sharia Law
Posted Feb 15th 2008 1:09AM by Dinesh D'Souza
Filed under: Islam, Christianity, Bizarre, Atheism
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Reader Comments ( Page 4 of 25)
46. Linda,
Was it as good for you as it was for me? I'm going for a smoke-ele.
AndrewV,
"How does one discover if what they are following is actually true?"
When an overzealous congregation induces epilepsy into the victim and tells him he was speaking in tongues. It's a hazing ritual for prospective pledges.
Mokele-Mobembe at 11:42AM on Feb 15th 2008
47. So..the Christians are inviting their strange bedfellows to accommodate religious values that go against secular government and society?
These religious nut jobs should be put away.
Manni at 11:44AM on Feb 15th 2008
48. Mokele: Last week I was going through some old tapes at my parents house, and you know what I found? "Baby: The Secret of the Lost Legend."
AndrewV at 11:44AM on Feb 15th 2008
49. I actually just fell out of my chair laughing, Mokele...
Strados at 11:44AM on Feb 15th 2008
50. Linda,
First let me say, that I'm more than pleased with the Redskins decision in hiring the Z-Man as head coach.
In regards to your post. It is true, that the majority feel that stories indicate us to have "obedience to God".
I have to disagree though. What I get from it all, is that the stories teaches me discipline. I feel that people religious and non religious try to interpret it and disect it. I feel this is wrong.
You see, I feel, that our lives, and what we learn in our life strengthen the words.
For instance, I'm a firm believer in Evolution. How can I not? It is a fact jack. But it doesn't go against Genesis in any way shape or form.
Evolution confirms the beauty of how things became.
Strados,
I've seen evidence that the physical Jesus walked this earth. Is he the son of God? I believe so. But that has nothing to do with whether or not I know God.
And as I've said on here before, the Bible did not in any way assist me in my coming to realize there is God. That relationship came about through my experiences in my life.
If there is an after life, cool. I think my body of work speaks for itself, and I would hope, that through all the bad stuff I've done, and I have done some outright terrible things, that the good stuff has overtaken it. That I truly do feel horrible for the bad things I've done, and the fact that I sincerely wanted to be forgiven not just by God, but from myself.
What I get from the stories of the Bible, is that it teaches us to learn how to know ourself. If it's not interpreted, you can see how it can help us in any situation that presents itself.
Botts at 11:52AM on Feb 15th 2008
51. AndrewV,
That's back when Sean Young was hot and not alcoholic, and animatronic puppetry was the CGI of the day. Good times. So much jungle-boobie in that movie, I'm surprised my parents let me watch it so often as a child.
Mokele-Mobembe at 11:54AM on Feb 15th 2008
52. I'm sorry, Dinesh, but I don't get your opening line. I think you are trying to bait any atheist reading this blog.
If you actually read the comments atheists leave, you would understand that most of them have no problems with people having private beliefs as long as those beliefs aren't enforced on them by law.
So it makes no sense that if most atheists feel this way that they would rejoice with champagne over Shari'a law being enforced in Britain.
I'm a Christian but I firmly believe in separation of church and state, for the very reason mentioned in your blog. I would not want to live in a country where I was forced to live by Muslim law; therefore it isn't fair if I try to force my beliefs into government over others who don't share them.
This is the plan of radical Islam, though - bringing Shari'a government to Western countries. There may come a time in the very near future where atheists, Christians, Jews, and whoever else will have to unite to prevent this from happening.
Theocracy under any name is not a good thing.
Just my two cents. Peace.
Guy at 12:01PM on Feb 15th 2008
53. I think the Archbishop is perhaps not fully acquainted with Sharia Law. It was a very naive thing for him to say and may lead others to agree without knowing what they are getting into with it. I am a woman and non muslim and know the taxation without representation, subjugation, violence, and even murder decreed in this law are very dangerous to people like me.
Dr D at 12:11PM on Feb 15th 2008
54. Liked your post, Guy. We need more sensible, intelligent Christians at the forefront.
If Jerry Brown comes by, I read your posts that you described under "Chemical Love" blog. Reminds me a lot of Botts' experiences. Very personal experience, as opposed to an indoctrination by group.
I respect you and Botts a lot. However, Observant would probably say you aren't playing by the rules. I believe that "true" Christians are those who try to follow the path. The other kind are just power-hungry and "holier-than-thou.
Linda at 12:12PM on Feb 15th 2008
55. A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.
The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
* From bondage to spiritual faith;
* From spiritual faith to great courage;
* From courage to liberty;
* From liberty to abundance;
* From abundance to complacency;
* From complacency to apathy;
* From apathy to dependence;
* From dependence back into bondage.
Murray at 12:19PM on Feb 15th 2008
56. Well, when I saw the news about the Illinois shooter Steven Kazmierczak, I did a google search on his name. Why? Because I wanted to see if he had a religious upbringing, like Matthew Murray.
This is something I found:
http://copycateffect.blogspot.com/2008/02/niu-shooter-steve-kazmierczak.html
Friday, February 15, 2008
NIU Shooter: Steve Kazmierczak
From hints of information noted in the media, the NIU shooter must allegedly be the former Academic Criminal Justice Association Vice-President Steve Kazmierczak.
In an overnight Chicago Tribune article, you will find that it gives enough data about the shooter, without giving his id away, for anyone using the net to find his true identity.
The shooter, we are told, was the VP of the above association and the coauthor of a paper on prison self-injury (what is called "parasuicides" in my field).
That paper is:
Thomas, Jim, Margaret Leaf, Steve Kazmierczak, and Josh Stone. 2006. "Self-Injury in Correctional Settings: 'Pathology' of Prisons or of Prisoners?" Criminology and Public Policy 5(1):193-202.
Matching the two, you find it is Steve Kazmierczak.
The paper describes Steve Kazmierczak thusly: "Beginning graduate work at Northern Illinois University. In addition to his interests in corrections, political violence, and peace and social justice, he is co-authoring a manuscript on the role of religion in the formation of early prisons in the United States with Jim Thomas and Josh Stone. He is also develops content for online education and is an executive board officer of the NIU student chapter of the American Correctional Association."
I expect an in-depth examination of Kazmierczak's visible internet life within hours.
It is ironic that Kazmierczak would have been involved in writing a paper on parasuicidal behavior.
posted by Loren Coleman at 2:59 AM
-------------------
Here's the pertinent part:
"he is co-authoring a manuscript on the role of religion in the formation of early prisons in the United States with Jim Thomas and Josh Stone."
So I'm betting that he had a religious upbringing. A christian one, of course.
We'll see. It looks likely.
Godless Heathen Brian at 12:28PM on Feb 15th 2008
57. Mokele: I watched a little of it, and yea, the CGI is pretty lo-tech. I love the end, the "herbivorous" dinosaur mauls the evil scientist. Too funny.
AndrewV at 12:38PM on Feb 15th 2008
58. Korrection: the CGI was lo-tech. There was no CGI, I'm just an idiot. The animatronics were lo-tech.
AndrewV at 12:39PM on Feb 15th 2008
59. GHB,
If he is he's going straight into the O.M.E.N. list, because I can't stand the cherry-picking that goes on around here.
Mokele-Mobembe at 12:41PM on Feb 15th 2008
60. "When an overzealous congregation induces epilepsy into the victim and tells him he was speaking in tongues."
In the argument over what constitutes a true Christian, many, if not most, Christians will try to distance themselves from the snake-handling, tongue-speaking, funeral-protesting whack jobs and claim that their Christianity is sensible, or that religion still deserves a degree of respect. In the words of the Great Atheist Church Prophet Richard Dawkins, "Let's stop being so damned respectful."
AndrewV at 12:49PM on Feb 15th 2008