Atheists can break out the champagne: there really are some wacky religious people out there. One of them seems to be Rowan Williams, the archbishop of Canterbury. In a recent speech Williams ruffled a lot of feathers--it is not Anglican custom to ruffle a lot of feathers--when he said it "seems unavoidable" that Muslim holy law or sharia is coming to Britain. Not only that, but our bearded, bespectacled cleric even thought that this would be a good thing because it would foster social cohesion.
While conceding that "nobody in their right mind would want to see in this country" some of the "extreme punishments" and "attitudes toward women" that prevail in certain Muslim countries, Williams called for a "constructive accommodation with some aspects of Muslim law." So: no chopping off limbs and no honor killings. Williams argued, however, that other issues such as marital disputes and financial matters could be handled not by the British legal system but by Muslim sharia courts. All of this would have the beneficial result, in Williams' view, of meeting the distinctive needs of Muslims. Williams argued that Muslims should not have to choose between "the stark alternatives of cultural loyalty or state loyalty."
Now if this sounds absurd to you, and a little dangerous to boot, ask yourself: where have I heard this before? What we are getting from Williams is not religious craziness but liberal craziness, not theological error but multicultural reductio ad absurdum. The multicultural premise is that classical liberal rules that apply equally to everyone nevertheless discriminate against racial and cultural minorities that don't want to play by those rules. Consequently equality of rights for individuals must give way to equality of consideration for groups. Otherwise minorities will feel disenfranchised even in a society where there is equal treatment for individuals under the law. This is what Williams means when he says that Muslims should not have to sacrifice cultural loyalty in order to be loyal to Britain.
So what is our woolly-headed archbishop suggesting: office breaks for Muslims to pray five times a day? Jihadist history month? Overlooking the occasional polygamous marriage in the Muslim community? No one really knows because Williams didn't really say. And when several people expressed shock at Williams' words and called for his resignation, Williams finally acknowledged that he had spoken "clumsily" and with a "misleading choice of words." Even so, he added that while he did not favor creating "parallel jurisdictions" for sharia and secular courts, he thought that "additional choices" could be opened to Muslims. On what precisely those choices might be, Williams maintained a Sphinx-like silence.
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Anglican Archbishop Embraces Sharia Law
Posted Feb 15th 2008 1:09AM by Dinesh D'Souza
Filed under: Islam, Christianity, Bizarre, Atheism
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Reader Comments ( Page 5 of 25)
61. Hi Linda,
Thanks for the come back. You are right about the personal experience, that is how I see our only connection with divinity.
Jerry Brown at 12:50PM on Feb 15th 2008
62. AndrewV,
Too funny. Motherly instinct can turn herbivores into carnivores in dire situations. It's that kind of evolutionary imperative that has allowed these dinosaurs to survive the Tertiary eon. Dr. Kiviat was an interesting villain, I'd probably have made many of the same choices for the sake of science. He surrounded himself with unruly gun-toting militia, but could always keep them under his thumb. I can't believe the slapstick manner of how they killed off Nigel, his goofy looking sidekick (who actually cared about the creature's comforts).
Mokele-Mobembe at 12:54PM on Feb 15th 2008
63. Mokele: I guess they wouldn't actually become carnivores, since they are just using violence, not actually consuming the target of their rage.
Here's a video from YouTube of some water buffalo kicking ass against some lions. Herbivores gone wild!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM
AndrewV at 12:58PM on Feb 15th 2008
64. O.M.E.N. list???
What's that, moke?
Godless Heathen Brian at 1:01PM on Feb 15th 2008
65. AndrewV,
"I guess they wouldn't actually become carnivores, since they are just using violence"
In this case the violence transpired between her teeth, on a living person. That's carnivorous enough for me.
GHB,
Official Moratorium of Emetic Names (O.M.E.N.)
Roster:
Darwin, Charlie
Harris, Eric
Hitler, Adolf
Klebold, Dylan
Pot, Pol
Stalin, Joe
Open Registration:
[Enter name here]
O.M.E.N. is a community-owned entity of cumulative content that claims no sole proprietor. For convenience the roster would preferably be maintained by its submitters as a single contiguous list. Alphebetization not required, but preferred. The O.M.E.N. Act possesses no faculty to distribute punitive action to violators, although it is warned that the violator is liable to be subjected to prompt castigation by textual expression of regurgitative expulsion.
Add whomever you (dis)like.
I motion to deny registration of D'Souza, Dinesh to the O.M.E.N. roster on the following grounds: If we declare a moratorium on his name, we cannot discuss, or by extension, discredit him -- at least not by his actual name. Should he be established on the roster he must henceforth be referred to via alias (e.g. anagrams, nomenclative bastardizations, etc.).
Mokele-Mobembe at 1:19PM on Feb 15th 2008
66. I respect you and Botts a lot. However, Observant would probably say you aren't playing by the rules. I believe that "true" Christians are those who try to follow the path. The other kind are just power-hungry and "holier-than-thou.
Linda at 12:12PM on Feb 15th 2008
----------------------------------
Linda, I have to tell you I am quite confused by your comment.
If, according to you, the bible is not the true writings of God. Then there can be no true christians. For someone to be a christian, one would have to be a christian ,as is taught in the bible.
For outside of the bible there is no christian religion. Christ is the author and finisher of our faith. And the the scripture was writen so that the world might believe.
In the very book you deny to be the word of God, Jesus said. No man come come unto me except my father draw him.
Jerry made the statement that he did not believe in God. Jesus said he and his father are one, meaning they are one in total and complete agrement, but yet two seperate persons.
You said Observeant would say Jerry is not playing by the rules. The rlues as you call them are listed as the plan of God for the redemption of sin for all.
How can a person go outside the plan that God mandated for all to partake in , and recieve it someother way. Jerry said he was bornagain, but yet does not believe in God. This is scriptualy impossible.
Observant at 1:48PM on Feb 15th 2008
67. Observant: you think you know all the rules of the game.
I admire people who try to follow the teachings of Christ w/r to his positive message for society.
You are the ultimate chauvinist and holier-than-thou. Always threatening hell and brimstone..... it gets really old to those of us who know better.
Linda at 1:51PM on Feb 15th 2008
68. By the way, Jerry said he didn't believe in god before he had his "personal" experience, not after.
And there are plenty of things in the scriptural "bible" that are truly impossible.
Linda at 2:02PM on Feb 15th 2008
69. You are the ultimate chauvinist and holier-than-thou. Always threatening hell and brimstone..... it gets really old to those of us who know better.
Linda at 1:51PM on Feb 15th 2008
-----------------------------------------
Your falsely accuse me of being Holier-than-thou.
Name one comment I ever boasted myself better or holier than anyone else.
As far as the threating people with fire and brimestone, You tell me. Does the bible teach that unbelievers go to this place, or does it not?
If it does, I would not be makeing a threat, but simply stateing a biblical fact.
Is this not true?
Observant at 2:06PM on Feb 15th 2008
70. 68. By the way, Jerry said he didn't believe in god before he had his "personal" experience, not after.
And there are plenty of things in the scriptural "bible" that are truly impossible.
Linda at 2:02PM on Feb 15th 2008
--------------------------------
That may be true. But the biblical fact is a man must FIRST believe that God IS, NOT after the fact.
I realize you don't believe the bible to be true, but just the same this is a debate over scripture.
Observant at 2:11PM on Feb 15th 2008
71. D'Souza wants to keep the idiocy that religion is hidden!
I think that the Archbishop's idea is brilliant! Let the Muslims have their court, public floggings, hand-choppings and all!
Televise it!
Of course any Muslim practicing his religion on a non-Muslim would be subject to common sense law then punished Muslim style! e.g. No 'honor killing' a non-Muslim then getting off easy in Muslim court!
I think this would be good for two or three seasons of prime time television... then the Muftis or whatever would be wondering why their flock had abandoned Islam for something else... anything else!
not-pboyfloyd at 2:13PM on Feb 15th 2008
72. Observant,
You cannot use text to prove a point unless BOTH parties agree the text is legitimate. Most people here do not believe the bible is a legitimate source for arguement of EITHER SIDE of the debate. Find another way to be convincing.
Strados at 2:13PM on Feb 15th 2008
73. Linda,
Taking the scripture out of a debate about God , would be like Takeing the Bang, out of the big bang.
Observant at 2:14PM on Feb 15th 2008
74. Otherwise I'm going to start quoting L. Ron Hubbard at you and really piss people off.
Strados at 2:15PM on Feb 15th 2008
75. As far as the threating people with fire and brimestone, You tell me. Does the bible teach that unbelievers go to this place, or does it not?
If it does, I would not be makeing a threat, but simply stateing a biblical fact.
Is this not true?
Observant at 2:06PM on Feb 15th 2008
xxxx
If it is true, it makes you holier than thou.
You can redeem yourself ONLY if ALL christian theologians agree with you. You'd still be nutty as a squirrel turd to me, but you could at least then claim to be no holier than the rest of the rollers.
Clif Kuplen at 2:16PM on Feb 15th 2008