When I proposed in my book The Enemy at Home (newly out in paperback) that America should ally with traditional Muslims to defeat the radical Muslims, some conservatives reacted with amazement. Where, these savants inquired, are the traditional Muslims? Clearly the exposure of some on the right to the Muslim world was limited to the viewing of clips of Bin Laden videos on the Fox News Channel.
Then last October a group of 138 Muslim scholars from diverse schools of thought wrote an open letter to Pope Benedict urging "mutual understanding" between Christianity and Islam. Titled "A Common Word Between Us and You," the letter notes that Muslims and Christians can find shared ground based on the dual commandments to love God and love our neighbor.
"As Muslims," the letter goes, "we say to Christians that we are not against them and that Islam is not against them--so long as they do not wage war against Muslims on account of their religion, oppress them, and drive them out of their homes." The letter was carefully worded so that it did not confuse clashes of interests with a war against the Muslim religion. In effect, the Muslim leaders were saying that their religious quarrel is only with atheists and other enemies of Islam.
Liberal Christians reacted to the letter with their usual abasement. Certainly some relief was in order, because Muslims who seek common cause with the West, or at least with the Christian West, are far preferable to those who seek to destroy us. Even so, why are liberal Christians so quick to prostrate themselves? "We want to begin by acknowledging that in the past (e.g. in the Crusades) and in the present (e.g. in the war on terror) many Christians have been guilty of sinning against our Muslim neighbor...We ask forgiveness of the All-Merciful One and of the Muslim community around the world."
The Vatican, accustomed to dealing with Muslim diplomatic initiatives for centuries, responded with much greater caution. While welcoming the initiative to dialog, the Vatican's Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran stressed that genuine common ground requires reciprocity. So if Muslims want to have full rights of worship in Western countries, they should grant those same rights to Christians in Muslim countries. If Muslims have the freedom to build mosques in London and Chicago, Christians should be able to build churches in Islamabad and Amman.
One group of ignoramuses wants to wage an ideological war against Islam. Another group of sycophants wants to curry favor among Muslims, just so long as they abstain from bombing us. In between these two there is a sensible option: to negotiate respectfully but firmly with traditional Muslims, building on shared values but also insisting that justice and goodwill must come from both sides of the street.
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Muslims Who Renounce Violence
Posted Feb 20th 2008 2:02AM by Dinesh D'Souza
Filed under: Terrorism, Islam, Christianity, Islamic Radicals
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Reader Comments ( Page 5 of 35)
61. From Ken
"don't take things so personally, guy. if my education and intelligence overwhelm you,"
That's the great thing about being a True Christian and having a knowledge of God. Nothing overwhelms me. I didn't take anything you said personal. I took what you said as ignorance. My criticism will never be subjected to solely Atheists. If I disagree with something, it's not limited to their belief system.
If your IQ is way over 140, then you are more intelligent than me. The question is, what have you done with it?
"just get over it. if you can't handle two grown men discussing things on this blog: don't read them."
Get over what? I can handle anything you throw or anyone throws at me. If you can't handle my responses because you are ignorant, don't read them.
"glad to hear that you've had a safe trip over seas."
Thank you, but I haven't gone anywhere in weeks. I've had meetings with people overseas, but that's the great thing about skype and satellite phones.
"and, don't forget, tolerance is one thing, but allowing oneself to be walked all over is another..."
Practice what you preach big guy.
"your question should be with hays: he's the one with the 'problem': remember? HE's the one who wants to stop any believers in any God at all."
I've had dialog with William. It doesn't get very far. On a blog there is limitations. No matter what he wants, it won't happen. However, some of things William says is DEAD ON the money.
Religion is a Con Game. It's man made. The Bible isn't a Con Game. Only what man has done with his interpretations from it is the con.
Sometimes you need to listen to the message not the messanger.
You know what I'm saying?
Botts at 5:23PM on Feb 20th 2008
62. Obama is a racist and an anti-semite. Please look at this. I'm furious!
youtube---Keywords: "the shocking video Barack Obama does not want you to see!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prhnc2fxAzg&NR=1
(This is also Oprah Winfrey's Church!)
Katherine at 1:16PM on Feb 21st 2008
63. Dinesh writes:
So if Muslims want to have full rights of worship in Western countries, they should grant those same rights to Christians in Muslim countries. If Muslims have the freedom to build mosques in London and Chicago, Christians should be able to build churches in Islamabad and Amman.
-----
Why? If people are not free to worship as they please in Amman, how does this affect the first ammendment( does anyone remember this one?)? Because they (muslim countries) have a theocracy, we should?
Perhaps Dinesh was damaged, somehow, by his catholic learning.
mac at 5:30PM on Feb 20th 2008
64. Islam on wife beating...Quran verse 4:34...
Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All high, All great.
Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
Islam on how to spread deal with non-believers and how to spread their religion
Quran Surah 4:8-9
Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant.
A religion of peace...
JPENA308 at 5:49PM on Feb 20th 2008
65. Hi Moke.... I was curious about Botts b/c he is so strong with his convictions, yet I don't quite understand what they are based on (unlike Mr. Hays)... kind of like a spiritualist... It is fine if he is on the fence, it just makes me wonder when he says things about being scared of him in person... hmmmm...
Anyway, you may be right about choosing what you believe. I came to this whole Christian thing via an interest in the supernatural (Edgar Casey, etc..). That was my only conviction as a teen... that it was real. I just wasn't sure what the truth was about it. So as you can imagine, I never once entertained the belief that the supernatural did not exist.
Shannie at 6:32PM on Feb 20th 2008
66. #37 - Linda, thanks for the compliment. That particular phrase was born one day while Ann "Bird Vomit" Coulter was on some morning news program. As she mouthed off her usual inflammatory idiocies, she was holding a coffee mug...and I randomly turned to my partner and said "That must be one hot steaming cup of stupid they gave her."
He spit his coffee out from laughing so hard. "Ah Ha!" Sayeth I...better tag that one for the future. And then along came D'Idiot. Every time I see this jug-eared nit-wit speak, all I can think of are his parents forcing him to slurp from the remnants of a soupdish as he planned his adult/nerd revenge...and scurries off to college to join the young conservatives years later. He Probably wet his pants with glee the day Reagen shook his hand....y'know what I mean?
Tim at 6:34PM on Feb 20th 2008
67. Thanks for your response Botts... I thought I scared you away. I know the battle between most followers of Christ is based on the interpretation of the scriptures. I don't think anyone has it completely right in that area but I must say that you are the first follower of Christ to talk about Horus (that I know of). Usually most followers at least agree that Jesus is the savior, with no one before or after.
Anyway... you then must realize that most followers will probably question you on that.. has that been your experience?
BTW I am pretty sure you wouldn't scare me in person unless you meant that in a physical way. ..
Shannie at 6:37PM on Feb 20th 2008
68. DD, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MODERATE RELIGIOUS PERSON. THEY ARE RACISTS, BIGOTS, MURDERERS AND WORSE. WHEN ALL PEOPLE, MUSLIMS INCLUDED, DENOUNCE BEHEADINGS AND OTHER FORMS OF VIOLANCE PRACTICED BY ISLAM IN THE NAME OF MOHAMMUD, THEN AND ONLY THEN CAN THEY BE ACCEPTED AS MODERATE. HOW LUDICROUS THIS ALL IS WHEN YOU CONSIDER . . . THERE IS NO GOD !
Daniel Mullane at 6:55PM on Feb 20th 2008
69. Muslims that renounce violence, should regin in those that don't ... then we'll have something to talk about.
Thomas J Gassett at 7:08PM on Feb 20th 2008
70. See.. now it's your fault Botts.. not reining in D'Souza and Gassbag!
not-pboyfloyd at 7:12PM on Feb 20th 2008
71. ATHEIST
Anyway, when it comes to the subject of peace...
Atheists... OK, the New Atheism.... is pro-active. Says that God is an Imaginary Friend, or a Con Game used to motivate people to follow a leader who claims to speak FOR God.
This Mohammed fellow.... wanted people to follow him, so he made up some stories and found people willing to fight for them.
That's the key phrase.... "willing to fight for them."
If Islam isn't demonizing atheists and threatening us, Islam has no point.
Because they don't actually worship a god. They only use "god" as their Motivational Device... and they have to go after Atheists.
I'm not afraid of Muslims, but I'm not going to turn my back on one, either. If they're dim enough to think the Quran is a holy book, they're dim enough to think Atheists are a convenient enemy.
William Hays at 7:18PM on Feb 20th 2008
72. ATHEIST
reply to: 66 I know the battle between most followers of Christ is based on the interpretation of the scriptures. I don't think anyone has it completely right in that area
____________
That's kind of an interesting question.
If there are so many Christians, why can't anyone get it "completely right"?
and the Answer is...
...
.... The words attributed to Jesus in the New Testament predict a Son of Man will appear in the clouds with angels. At the time, most of the likely readers knew who the Son of Man was. He was a character in other popular literature.
Now, the part that screws everything up is... the words of Jesus said this would happen while some of the people listening to him were still alive.
To get it "completely right," you have to admit the deadline passed over 1,800 years ago.
Anything else is a LIE, because you don't want to admit the truth.
William Hays at 7:23PM on Feb 20th 2008
73. "O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (The Noble Quran, 4:19)"
JPena,
I guess you left this part out.
It's bad enough when people cherry pick the Bible to suit themselves, but don't cherry pick something you know nothing about.
Botts at 7:43PM on Feb 20th 2008
74. Shannie,
Thanks for your message.
Most followers do question me. That is because most followers are indoctrinated by another persons view. People need to find answers for themselves, not something someone has told them.
The Bible clearly says that.
My "Scared" comment was directed at someone else. They said they fear me. I told them the reason was because I know them without knowing them and I see them without seeing them, which is true.
When I'm able to get a word in edge wise with Believers and they actually listen without being defensive, I make a lot of sense, and I always have facts to back up my statements.
Most indoctrinated Christians, are divisive. They fear Muslims, they fear Atheists, and they fear Science. This is what they're told to do. The best way to control people, is to scare them.
And for the record, I'm not on the fence. There is no fence. There is no boundary. There never was.
Man created the fence, and man told people to choose.
There is no choice.
Botts at 7:54PM on Feb 20th 2008
75. Pboy,
It's always my fault. And don't you ever forget the color Blue.
Botts at 8:00PM on Feb 20th 2008