What conservatives don't understand is that America was not made in God's image. It was not born perfect. It is not and should not be immune to change. Challenging the government of America isn't un-American, it's the very definition of being American.
Through these challenges and these changes we continue to make America better and better. We are not the greatest country by birthright or accident of geography; we are the greatest because we hold ourselves to a higher standard.
So, when we do something as hideous as what I explain below, it is our duty as Americans to challenge our government and demand that they do better. We cannot allow them to do this in our name:
Here is the original 60 Minutes story on what we did to Murat Kurnaz. But his story is, unfortunately, not unique. We have done this to countless people at Bagram Air Base, Qaim, Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay. We are better than this. Don't let George Bush tell the rest of the world that this is what we are and what we stand for. We must defend the honor and good name of America, otherwise this is what we become.
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We Tortured People So That George Bush Wouldn't be Embarrased
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Reader Comments ( Page 1 of 3)
1. It makes one wonder, what exactly are the people being held at American prisons considered to be?
Bush says they are not POWs and are not subject to the Geneva conventions.
They are not US citizens, so they are not allowed due process( fourth and fifth ammendmants).
What recourse do these people have? How are they to be represented by counsel if they are not officially catagorized?
Maybe I missed something in social studies class. Are we( the US) supposed to treat people this way? Is it legal? Ethical?
mac at 2:42AM on Apr 1st 2008
2. Would someone PlEASE add close caption to this so We the Disable Deaf and Hard of Hearing can understand whats going on?!?! Whats going on here and what happened?
Chris Conley at 3:51AM on Apr 1st 2008
3. Cenk
As usual you jump on a story without taking a close look at it. CBS ran the story of how this Murat Kurnaz was arrested in Pakistan by the Pakistan Police. Then the story went on to tell about torture and being held by Americans for 5 years.
No Torture Proven, no torture ever proven to have occurred at Gitmo. Unsupported claims backed by no evidence.
Now Germany gets involved. Germany also had investigators working on the Kurnaz investigation.
In 2002 the after the US had already decided he did not pose any security risk to the USA, the GERMAN GOVERNMENT PREVENTED HIS RELEASE. Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier is currently under intense pressure to explain why the German Govt prevented the release of Kurnaz. It was questioning and investigation by the German Intel Agency-BND that led the Agency to not ok the relase of Murnaz. But the German's lost all the transcripts of questioning of Kurnaz.
Kurnaz was held from 2002 to 2006 because German Intel would not approve the release of Kurnaz whose case was still open according to those German Officals. It was Germany that messed up and is under investigation that lost all the documents that would have cleared Kurnaz of all accusations of being a dangerous Islamist and of having ties to the Taliban or AQ.
Now I know Cenk and others will hate to see that Kurnaz was held all that time because of Germany, but just check news source "Der Spiegel" in Germany
Kurnaz goes to Afgan.
Kurnaz on way back to Germany, arrested in Pakistan by Pakistan police.
Held in Gitmo till 2006
German Intel Agency prevented his release from Gitmo in 2002
German Intel screwed up lost all intel records on Krunaz and did not tell USA of that fact.
robert okane at 6:12AM on Apr 1st 2008
4. America's Most Gangsta is an ultraviolent farce...
...like the bush administration!!!
America's Most Gangsta at 7:07AM on Apr 1st 2008
5. How or why is America the "greatest" nation on earth?
Seriously. What is it which you think makes this country great?
I don't believe that we've got a whole heck of lot of which to be proud. In fact, if anything, we Americans should be hanging our heads in shame while working to once again make this country good.
Dan at 7:23AM on Apr 1st 2008
6. Cenk the champion of chumps
Boy was you and CBS taken by this liar, Murat Kurnaz
In 2 interviews with the German Press after his release, 9/14/06 Dr Spiegel, and Andy Worthington Author, Kurnaz never claimed any mistreatment/torture by Americans. He blamed some mistreatment by some German Soldiers at Kandahar.
A BOOK written by Kurnaz, released April 23, 2007,
has the following charges against american troops at Gitmo. These stories are left out of his lawsuit against USA. Kurnaz claims he was beaten and subjected to electroshock on a regular basis. Kurnaz also stated that on a regular basis, US Doctors at Gitmo amputated healthy body parts of the inmates. Anytime anyone went to the medical facility, a few days later they would come back missing a body part. One time the Doctors amputated both legs of a Saudi inmate and Kurnaz saw the Saudi being brought back to his cage, 2 legs missing, with the stumps oozing blood and stumps. No mention of waterboarding
Cenk-and you believe this crap????????
CBS believes this crap.
You are so easily taken, such fools.
Believing prisoners at Gitmo were subjected to amputations on a regular basis.
Kurnaz is a liar and only fools will believe his story
robert okane at 8:17AM on Apr 1st 2008
7. Seriously. Do any of you think that the terrorists would tell us their next target or latest plan if we asked nicely? I suppose you think that decapitating a human being on television to make an example is ethical. When fighting a war with primitive people such as this you have to fight their way and believe me the US still does not do the things that our captured Americans endure everyday. How do I know? My husband is on his 5th tour in Iraq w/ the USMC. Think people, as long as we are divided and publicly no less, we are at the mercy of the rest of the world. THINK!!!
Lynn at 8:24AM on Apr 1st 2008
8. Oh the poor unfortunate Taliban, Al Quida, bomb carrying, child abusing, woman killer, murdering, decapitating, mutilating, all in the name of Islam, gentlemen that are in Gitmo or any other lock-up...they are there for a reason; and that is to keep them from committing any more attrocities in the name of Allah.
We are or actually, were, a great country because we didn't have the availability we have now of communication over computers and satellites, hard wiring to and from your front door to your back door and the neighbors house down and across the street any time you want.
All the NAFTA and other foreign trade agreements only made us more greedy which demanded more and more connectivity to other foreign soils.
That in turn made us an evil empire.
Had we not gotten so involved with other countries by trying to convert them to a capitalistic democracy with a Christian religion or belief, we would BE the greatest country on the planet.
It was stated a long time ago but no one heeded the warning........"Keep out of foreign affairs!"
I do believe it was Mr. George Washington ?
Look where we are now....up to our eyeballs in debt, murder, deceit, etc., etc..
We cannot go back.
We cannot undo what has been forcefully etched into this country's original Constitution by all the deranged attorneys
and underhanded controlling corporations.
Our Constitution has been turned into an abomination and used as a tool to allow other countrys to walk all over us.
Had we stayed an isolationist country and not gotten involved with others problems, we would not be in the position we are today.
So, please, dear UNITED STATES of AMERICA, continue to do the thing you do so well now and water-board any 'infidel' you want.
Meanwhile, I'll continue to work day in and day out to try to provide a home and sustinance for my family, pay the taxes that provide the capability to torture and kill our poor enemies, and pay the outlandish prices for imported and exported goods to third world countries that try so hard to travel here to get a piece of the American Dream.
Remember, we once sold scrap iron to a country that turned it into Mitsubishi aircraft that bombed the hell out of our navy over sixty years ago because they didn't have the natural resources to make itself a competative nation.
God bless my dear America and the continent it is on!
mbb at 8:33AM on Apr 1st 2008
9. Cenk where exactly were you inbred? It seems that all you know how to do is find fault with everyone that you disagree with politically or otherwise. You and the rest of the Young Jerks could not stand the scrutiny that the professional journalist has to adhere to and publish under so you revert to the anonymity of the blogs. When will you ever get a story right the first time? It seems that even today that a number of inquisitive posters are using facts from real publications that dispute the complete tenor of your posting. What gives?
Gere at 8:46AM on Apr 1st 2008
10. Brave Special Forces Troops kicking the crap out of al-sadar's thugs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tMDhVu-f2Q
It's a beautiful thing.
Paul Sparcello at 9:58AM on Apr 1st 2008
11. I disagree with most everything TYT reports. Every once in awhile I check in to see if things change.....and they don't. You are the most negative, truth skewing journalists around. You contribute in such a destructive way to the pompus and arrogant anti american sentiment shared by so few. But, I'll check in again, out of curiosity, read your first two sentences, and be sickened again. You are so much a part of a problem, that slowly spreads like cancer.
leslie at 10:27AM on Apr 1st 2008
12. I don’t have a problem with the interrogating techniques that were described as long as they are used against real insurgents and terrorists. It’s unfortunate if the man really was innocent though. But in any war there is collateral damage whether it be property or life.
Bryan CRT at 10:42AM on Apr 1st 2008
13. Paul @ number 10
Where's the thug? Have you ever been in a fire fight? Ever fired automatic weapons? Rockets? Cannons?
Beautiful, yes, but it didn't look very effective. Just a bunch of flash with not much substance.
mac at 10:46AM on Apr 1st 2008
14. Once again the Young TURDS prove their anti-American political bias. Having watched the films of these ghouls cutting off the heads of our citizens (and 13 Koreans) for the delight and entertainment of Al Jaziera Television viewers, then "frankly, my dear, I don't GIVE a chit" WHAT happens to them to gain information. I could understand PETA getting involved since we're dealing with ANIMALS!
URKiddinMee at 11:31AM on Apr 1st 2008
15. What's embarrassing is how shameful some people think it is to be an American. Like Israel, we target murderers and thugs, not civilians. Do we make mistakes? Sometimes. But anybody who says they "support the troops", but believes they are wantonly murdering and torturing civilians really doesn't. We are 100 times more humane to the enemy than they are to us.
And if you want to know about torture, talk to the families of the people who were crushed, vaporized and/or incinerated in the 911 attacks, or had to make a decision to burn to death or jump 1000 feet to their deaths.
And yes, we are fighting the very people in Iraq and Afghanistan who would murder US citizens. To vilify GW Bush is senseless. And if somebody other than doctrinaire lefties comes out and says that GW Bush is torturing people just to save himself from embarrassment, I'll listen. But, until then it's just another bitter, scurrilous, unfounded attack on our Commander in Chief made by folks with no credibility.
Dave at 11:32AM on Apr 1st 2008