While on the debating circuit pounding atheists--a pastime I am really getting to enjoy--I have just started reading Dalia Mogahed and Esposito's Who Speaks for Islam: What a Billion Muslims Really Think. It's one of the first books to put some real data behind a much-disputed question. Go ahead and order the book here.
For several years now liberal and conservative pundits have been pontificating about the Muslim world, usually without a shred of data. I was amused last year to cross swords with some of my fellow conservatives like Scott Johnson and Victor Davis Hanson. These ideologues seem of the opinion that the average Muslim is a crazed polygamist who is ready to blow himself up. No surprise: this is supposedly what Muslims all learn in the school where they read nothing but the Koran! Only pundits who have no exposure to Muslim countries, Muslim history and Muslim people can go on like this.
For such gurus, Islam itself is the problem and nothing short of an Islamic Reformation headed by ex-Muslims like Hirsi Ali will show the Muslim world where it has gone wrong over the past five centuries. Forgotten in all this theorizing is the simple fact that Islam has been around for 1300 years and Islamic terrorism has been around for a few decades. The intelligent questions to ask are, what is it about Islam today that has made it an incubator of radicalism and terrorism? And second, what do most Muslims really think about the West?
Fortunately there is an increasing body of reliable data on Muslim beliefs. One source is the World Values Survey, which has the benefit of tracking opinions over a period of decades. Another is the Gallup surveys which are now under the aegis of the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies, a group headed by Mogahed. Esposito is one of the most respected American authorities on Islam. I am only getting into their book, but here I offer my own hypothesis, and then I'm going to find out if their data vindicate it.
The problem for Muslims is not Christianity or Judaism. In fact, Islam sees itself as incorporating both in much the same way that Christianity sees itself as incorporating Judaism. The problem for most Muslims is liberalism. But here we must distinguish betwen two kinds of liberalism. There is the classical liberalism of the American founding. Call this Liberalism 1. This liberalism is reflected in such principles as the right to vote, to assemble freely, to debate issues, to trade with others, religious toleration, and so on.
Then there is the modern liberalism of the 1960s. Call this Liberalism 2. This liberalism is defined by such tenets as the right to blaspheme, the right of teenage boys and girls to receive sex education and contraceptives, the right to abortion, prostitution as a worker's right, pornography as a protected form of expression, gay rights and gay marriage, and so on. It is this second type of liberalism that seems to drive the social agenda of today's Democratic Party. For example, Hillary Clinton chaired a presidential task force during the 1990s that promoted prostitution as an international right for workers.
Now we are in a better position to understand Islamic attitudes regarding the West. The vast majority of Muslims worldwide embrace Liberalism 1 while rejecting Liberalism 2. They are generally comfortable with classical liberalism while abhorring the tenets of modern liberalism. And by equating America with such things as blasphemy, pornography, prostitution and homosexualty, the radical Muslims appeal to ordinary Muslims to join their cause in a battle against the Great Satan. This is what I have argued in my recent work and I'm interested to see how my thesis stands up in light of Mogahed and Esposito's data.
Of course today's liberals will chafe at the idea that their values are producing a powerful "blowback" from the House of Islam. That's why we need good empirical work like this book. Let us find out what Muslims really think, and then let us look at the propaganda of the radical Muslims to see how they rally traditional Muslims to their side. Who cares if liberals don't like to admit what is going on? People are entitled to their own opinions but they are not entitled to their own facts.
Reader Comments ( Page 1 of 60)
1. Spot on DD.
The West is just as beset with unelected 'community spokesmen' as the Middle-East; who want to pretend that their own extreme views are really the mainstream ones. It's only by the centre ground of both cultures rejecting their zealots that we can build peace.
They need to get their nutters to stop stoning criminals, we need to get our nutters to stop making movies that act as ninety minute adverts for crime.
Then maybe we can meet in the middle, no?
Noon at 2:27AM on Apr 23rd 2008
2. "Of course today's liberals will chafe at the idea that their values are producing a powerful "blowback" from the House of Islam."
----------------------------------------------------
What an incredibly shameful statement on your part. Shame on you, Mr. D'Souza. You are now officially a member of the "America Brought It On Itself" Club. Your fellow members include Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and Rev. Fred Phelps - all who agree that America's "acceptance" of homosexuals and "permissive" culture are the reason that we were attacked on September 11, 2001.
All you are doing here - your "hypothesis" - is simply legitimizing and actually even sympathizing with radical Muslims. You even admit the mutual disdain you share with murderous radical Islamists for gays, lesbians, sex education, contraceptives, religious dissent, as well as other things that you don't like that you slap with the label "Liberalism 2"(?).
Gee, I guess President George W. Bush got it completely wrong when he made the claim that they "hate us for our FREEDOM". Well, Mr. D'Souza, when are you going to break the news to the President and his administration, as well as the hundreds of thousands of American military personnel that he sent to war, that they got it all wrong?
From what I, and most everyone else remember, is that the people who attacked America were God-fearing religious-zealots who were screeching "God is Great!" as they were crashing airplanes full of innocent American men, women, and children into massive buildings full of innocent American men, women, and children.
This is not coming from a liberal.
Shame on you.
Frank at 3:55AM on Apr 23rd 2008
3. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781&ql
The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. That's where they get the moon symbol from.
For a detailed article and proof of who allah really is, go to
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm
ESCAPE_ISLAM at 5:59AM on Apr 23rd 2008
4. Well at least we know that Christianity was NEVER BASED on PAGAN MYTH'S and LEGENDS.
THE MYTH THAT CHRISTIANITY IS BASED ON MYTH
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=60763520&blogID=341187070
http://tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/copycathub.html
It is great that we have science and the historical record to back it up.
MAJOR WILLIAMS at 6:10AM on Apr 23rd 2008
5. Dinesh, you imply that Muslims are offended by prostitution. Oh yeah, I forgot, Muslims don't have prostitution in their nations--they have "temporary marriages", that is, "marriages" that last exactly as long as it takes a guy to get his nut off. That's a big improvement over prostitution! In fact, it equals prostitution plus hypocrisy.
What are you smoking, Dinesh? Whatever it is, it cannot possibly be legal.
emelpe at 6:10AM on Apr 23rd 2008
6. Wow DD, you did not read the book, cited it as the focus of your latest jewel, and created a new liberalism excuse for the violence brought about by religious intolerance, ALL religions. I ask, can one espouse to be the champion of "religious toleration" and the other "worthy" liberal qualities, touted in your liberalism 1 catagory, and still accept the idea that every individual should have the freedom to choose their path, within the guidelines of their civil responsibilities and laws? In applying the logic you assert the "New Muslim" relies on, it is time to go on the hunt and eradicate all vestages of "Muslim 2", leaving the (peaceful?) Muslim 1 crew to co-exist with the worthy liberal 1 sect, and all those outstanding members of the conservative ilk. Classic extension of faith based resolution of a problem stemming from economic inequality and resources. I'm sure that the 9/11 terrorists went to great lengths to destroy a large symbol of America's economic strength because they knew it was a safe harbor for those radical, liberal 2 satans and their crazy gay ideas. I am glad you have a forum for your ideas, it helps me re-affirm my own beliefs.
Jim B at 6:13AM on Apr 23rd 2008
7. LEARN ABOUT WHY THEY WANT TO KILL US FROM A FORMER TERRORIST
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlyKzojYows
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVF2pcavxzQ
WOW ... THIS VIDEO IS EYE OPENING about islam!!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781&ql
Joe JENkins at 6:29AM on Apr 23rd 2008
8. This world really needs Jesus more than ever. There are many ways to come to Jesus Christ, but there is only one way to come to be right standing with the ONE and ONLY God WHO is HOLY and that is through Jesus Christ.
http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear
http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear
http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear
GRACIE JOWERS at 6:38AM on Apr 23rd 2008
9. One of my favorite gems of the Muslim faith is the idea then when in "Rome", it is acceptable to do as the "Romans". Alcohol, adultery, etc... are all acceptable, provided they are done in "unbeliever territory". Examples can be made of every faith regarding these hypocracies-"thou shalt not kill"... not "thou shalt not kill unless...". Even Jesus backed this tenet up with his turn the other cheek discussion. All faith in a diety, professed as fact, is excuse driven influence for earthly power and influence. A true believer in a god would be a church of one, privately seeking comfort in their idea, and searching for it's meaning. The hypocracy comes in the "teaching" of faith and interpreting the personal relationship between a thinking being and their habitat, for the purpose of manipulation.
Jim B at 6:42AM on Apr 23rd 2008
10. Ditto that Gracie!
What this world really needs more than ever is Jesus. There are many ways to come to Jesus Christ, but there is only one way to approach God who is Holy and that is through Jesus Christ.
http://www.evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear
Frank Lungsford at 6:50AM on Apr 23rd 2008
11. People are entitled to their own opinion, not their own facts? D'Neash, please... I was crediting you for trying to instill useful debate with your stories, but this statement is the unveilling of your own hypocracy. "Let's take a book of someone's opinion, and interpret it as fact". Did this guy interview a billion muslims, as the title states? Did he allow free association from each, and record their ideas as they were given? Does he provide all the data and allow for the reader's interpretation? Or has he simply extrapolated from select interviews with "random" muslims? If twenty of forty muslims state that they want to see Americans die because they dont like homosexuality, does that make it a fact that islamic terrorists are killing to eradicate the west of it homosexuals? This book is more repetitive nonsense, cloaked in the guise of a scientific endeavour. Your personal experience with academia should have enlightened you to this.
Jim B at 6:59AM on Apr 23rd 2008
12. "While on the debating circuit pounding atheists--a pastime I am really getting to enjoy--"
LOL. Is Dinesh more full of himself or more full of s***? Actually there isn't really much of a difference. There might be one thing Dinesh is good at pounding though.
Edward Wenskovitch at 7:10AM on Apr 23rd 2008
13. i speaking from personal experience. When I was 17 years ago I live in algeria. a ban of fellow muslims forced their way into my friends home and killed his whole family they cut my friends head off just because he would not convert from christian to muslim. his life truly inspire me. now I am older now so I left islam. i saw evil everyday. their prophet is false. i have this to say to them.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/allah_best_deceiver.htm
Ishmael Hophnii at 7:11AM on Apr 23rd 2008
14. DD,
The problem for most Muslims is liberalism. But here we must distinguish betwen two kinds of liberalism. There is the classical liberalism of the American founding. Call this Liberalism 1. This liberalism is reflected in such principles as the right to vote, to assemble freely, to debate issues, to trade with others, religious toleration, and so on.
DD you must have been reading my post!! i have said all along that what muslims detest and hate and want to readicate the west over is the immoral and decadent lifestyle our brothers who are liberal live and APPROVE OF. DD you should write a book about this because i do not think the most of america really understands the muslim mind-set and why they are so angry at the west.
most liberals would like us to believe they are mad at us because of bush. of coarse bush was not around the last few decades when we were being terrorized during the 80-90's until 9/11. so really they could not be angry at bush. no, they are angry at the display of our immoralness through our entertainment industry that glorifies anything immoral to our on-going debate with the gay agenda. our smutt we sell over-seas and around the world. yes the muslims hate the liberal left and what they percieve as the enemy is not the conservative base of america, but the liberals.
indeed there is no doubt the liberal left is intent on destroying america. i do not approve of the way muslims have gone about responding to our immorality but then again,how else could they? look at how liberals respond to conservative reason. they mock and chide and get angry and then they call themselves TOLERANT???
its a sad day in america when we are divided because of left verses right but we are no longer united except by the force of law. light and dark will never mix and will always be at odds with each other. the left is bent on americas fall and i cannot understand why other than they love their immorality and are blinded by the prison of decadence they are in?
DD you should write a book about this,i think it would sell to the people interested in knowing the truth
brian at 7:14AM on Apr 23rd 2008
15. your hero bush already bowed down to one radical muslim demand by withdrawing from saudi arabia. he then appeased them again by invading iraq, thereby pumping up iran and leaving afghanistan alone to fester. why not eliminate liberals and just give the radical muslims everything they want then?
America's Most Gangsta at 7:20AM on Apr 23rd 2008