While on the debating circuit pounding atheists--a pastime I am really getting to enjoy--I have just started reading Dalia Mogahed and Esposito's Who Speaks for Islam: What a Billion Muslims Really Think. It's one of the first books to put some real data behind a much-disputed question. Go ahead and order the book here.
For several years now liberal and conservative pundits have been pontificating about the Muslim world, usually without a shred of data. I was amused last year to cross swords with some of my fellow conservatives like Scott Johnson and Victor Davis Hanson. These ideologues seem of the opinion that the average Muslim is a crazed polygamist who is ready to blow himself up. No surprise: this is supposedly what Muslims all learn in the school where they read nothing but the Koran! Only pundits who have no exposure to Muslim countries, Muslim history and Muslim people can go on like this.
For such gurus, Islam itself is the problem and nothing short of an Islamic Reformation headed by ex-Muslims like Hirsi Ali will show the Muslim world where it has gone wrong over the past five centuries. Forgotten in all this theorizing is the simple fact that Islam has been around for 1300 years and Islamic terrorism has been around for a few decades. The intelligent questions to ask are, what is it about Islam today that has made it an incubator of radicalism and terrorism? And second, what do most Muslims really think about the West?
Fortunately there is an increasing body of reliable data on Muslim beliefs. One source is the World Values Survey, which has the benefit of tracking opinions over a period of decades. Another is the Gallup surveys which are now under the aegis of the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies, a group headed by Mogahed. Esposito is one of the most respected American authorities on Islam. I am only getting into their book, but here I offer my own hypothesis, and then I'm going to find out if their data vindicate it.
The problem for Muslims is not Christianity or Judaism. In fact, Islam sees itself as incorporating both in much the same way that Christianity sees itself as incorporating Judaism. The problem for most Muslims is liberalism. But here we must distinguish betwen two kinds of liberalism. There is the classical liberalism of the American founding. Call this Liberalism 1. This liberalism is reflected in such principles as the right to vote, to assemble freely, to debate issues, to trade with others, religious toleration, and so on.
Then there is the modern liberalism of the 1960s. Call this Liberalism 2. This liberalism is defined by such tenets as the right to blaspheme, the right of teenage boys and girls to receive sex education and contraceptives, the right to abortion, prostitution as a worker's right, pornography as a protected form of expression, gay rights and gay marriage, and so on. It is this second type of liberalism that seems to drive the social agenda of today's Democratic Party. For example, Hillary Clinton chaired a presidential task force during the 1990s that promoted prostitution as an international right for workers.
Now we are in a better position to understand Islamic attitudes regarding the West. The vast majority of Muslims worldwide embrace Liberalism 1 while rejecting Liberalism 2. They are generally comfortable with classical liberalism while abhorring the tenets of modern liberalism. And by equating America with such things as blasphemy, pornography, prostitution and homosexualty, the radical Muslims appeal to ordinary Muslims to join their cause in a battle against the Great Satan. This is what I have argued in my recent work and I'm interested to see how my thesis stands up in light of Mogahed and Esposito's data.
Of course today's liberals will chafe at the idea that their values are producing a powerful "blowback" from the House of Islam. That's why we need good empirical work like this book. Let us find out what Muslims really think, and then let us look at the propaganda of the radical Muslims to see how they rally traditional Muslims to their side. Who cares if liberals don't like to admit what is going on? People are entitled to their own opinions but they are not entitled to their own facts.
Reader Comments ( Page 2 of 60)
16. DD,
The problem for most Muslims is liberalism. But here we must distinguish betwen two kinds of liberalism. There is the classical liberalism of the American founding. Call this Liberalism 1. This liberalism is reflected in such principles as the right to vote, to assemble freely, to debate issues, to trade with others, religious toleration, and so on.
DD you must have been reading my post!! i have said all along that what muslims detest and hate and want to readicate the west over is the immoral and decadent lifestyle our brothers who are liberal live and APPROVE OF. DD you should write a book about this because i do not think the most of america really understands the muslim mind-set and why they are so angry at the west.
most liberals would like us to believe they are mad at us because of bush. of coarse bush was not around the last few decades when we were being terrorized during the 80-90's until 9/11. so really they could not be angry at bush. no, they are angry at the display of our immoralness through our entertainment industry that glorifies anything immoral to our on-going debate with the gay agenda. our smutt we sell over-seas and around the world. yes the muslims hate the liberal left and what they percieve as the enemy is not the conservative base of america, but the liberals.
indeed there is no doubt the liberal left is intent on destroying america. i do not approve of the way muslims have gone about responding to our immorality but then again,how else could they? look at how liberals respond to conservative reason. they mock and chide and get angry and then they call themselves TOLERANT???
its a sad day in america when we are divided because of left verses right but we are no longer united except by the force of law. light and dark will never mix and will always be at odds with each other. the left is bent on americas fall and i cannot understand why other than they love their immorality and are blinded by the prison of decadence they are in?
DD you should write a book about this,i think it would sell to the people interested in knowing the truth
brian at 7:14AM on Apr 23rd 2008
17. your hero bush already bowed down to one radical muslim demand by withdrawing from saudi arabia. he then appeased them again by invading iraq, thereby pumping up iran and leaving afghanistan alone to fester. why not eliminate liberals and just give the radical muslims everything they want then?
America's Most Gangsta at 7:20AM on Apr 23rd 2008
18. brian and dd: two hypocritical sacks o' crap.
They would bomb the muslims into oblivion, and refuse to discuss anything with radicals, yet they will analyze our society, and give weight to that which the radical muslims don't like about us...only when it is also something that dd and brian don't like about us.
That is the sign of an asshole, to say the least.
(Vulgarity is nothing compared to what is at stake here).
America's Most Gangsta at 7:32AM on Apr 23rd 2008
19. Dinesh is obviously more interested in selling books to the believers than debating non-believers. His juvenile boastfulness appeals to the type who think that three year olds proclamation that nobody actually saw him with his hands in the cookie jar proves his innocence of snatching cookies, even as he wipes the crumbs from his mouth. I suspect that Dinesh realizes that he can't prove the improvable, even if he had Jesus come and perform some magic tricks at his next debate, his own magic based argument would allow his opponents to say that Jesus was actually some sort of imp only pretending to be Jesus. He's all about preaching to the choir to sell books (He might want to start an entire "What's So Great About..." series of books, because there are plenty of people in every group who want to feel superior to the rest of humanity, which helps explain why the "My God's better than your God arguments have been going on for the past couple of millennia.
If Dinesh actually cared more about promoting his religion than he cared about promoting his books, he wouldn't go so far out of his way to alienate the people he acts like he's trying to save just to amuse the people he hopes to sell his books to.
Ed W. at 7:37AM on Apr 23rd 2008
20. amg,
thats not true and you know it. the facts speak for themselves. and no i do not like the immoral decadence and the insidious agenda the liberal left has in our country. i do not like that the liberal left seeks to destroy this country and the freedoms we have long held dear at the hands of a largely immoral decadent group of people who only want to serve their own ends. yes theis country is divided and has been for years. the conservative base of this country is going to have to hang together or as brother ben said we will all hang seperate.
an no we are not assholes. we just realize that freedom is not freedom to denegrate ourselves and society by immorality because it leads to a different bondage. but you who believe in no god would never understand that.
notice ii is not the conservative conversation slinging "asshole" names around but the liberal left who feigns tolerance. now that is the real gipper!!
DD you are dead on right with this. the liberal left is bent on destroying this country. and yes we are divided. and yes its the fault of the immoral left
brian at 7:42AM on Apr 23rd 2008
21. amg,
i do agree with you about the vulgarity,its nothing compared to whats at stake. yes what is at stake is our country and the liberal left is bent on bringing us down. thats what is at stake. and the sad thing is you guys will more than likely win. and then it can be sweet immoral freedom any way you choose. all you need to do is silnce the voice of conservatism and you win. because most of america is only concerned with their own nice world not infringed upon.
yes i agree with you for once. but why do you have to be vulgar? as the bible says, out of the mouth proceed the issues of the heart. and by your own admission, your heart is VULGAR. how is that a virtue? who would want to immulate that? nobody.
this blog is the side of liberalism that the rest of america really needs to see. the vulgar,ugly,intolerant side that shows its true colors in a little closet blog in cyber-space. were america to see it they would see the nature of the beast-you said it amg--VULGAR
brian at 7:48AM on Apr 23rd 2008
22. ed w,
thats an intersesting comment considering he debates atheist practically for a living???? where do you get that. everything he does it against atheist
brian at 7:50AM on Apr 23rd 2008
23. DD:
You've done it again!!!
After admitting that you have not yet even read the book in question, you gleefully trumpet that it provides "statistically valid" proof of what you have already decided: that America (and all of the Western World) has brought the current fundamentalist Muslim attacks and killing of innocent women and children on themselves by supporting the freedoms that our "Liberal 1" (your term) founders used to frame our Constitution. That you have the unmitigated gall to use this opportunity, once again, to support your own sale of books and your self-proclaimed "success" in debates with atheists will not be a surprise to any of us who try to use this blog as a forum for sincere and open-minded discussion into issues surrounding religion and how it may be practised (or not) in the world today.
Harvey at 7:52AM on Apr 23rd 2008
24. Liberalism
-Liberalism #1: Liberty with accountability, the pursuit of God given rights to be cherished and protected. These are personal freedoms that come with an obligation of responsibility and accountabilty to God and man.
-Liberalism #2: Perverted liberty, the pursuit of personal choices without accountability and a total disreguard to responsibility in order to justify ones choices and actions.
Could it be that one of the reasons people choose atheism is so they can be irresponsible and not be held accountable for thier choices and actions and justify it as liberty?58a3704e
Jerry at 8:01AM on Apr 23rd 2008
25. jerry,
behind door number 2 is your liberal left agenda,well said. do most democrats feel this way no!! behind door number one is something all americans could stand behind, myself included!! this is why i oppose the liberal left.
thankfully not all liberals are as far left as the elitist. the problem is that liberal left that is in charge of the democratic party is the wrong group. get back to door number 1!!!
brian at 8:07AM on Apr 23rd 2008
26. brian, you are a walking vulgarity, an ambling monument to intolerance and hate. You freely call people "sharts", and yet you object to a literal descriptive of the very part from which the shart emenates.
WORLD'S THINNEST BOOKS:
"What's So Great About dinesh d'souzah and brian and george bush"
America's Most Gangsta at 8:09AM on Apr 23rd 2008
27. harvey,,
" sincere and open-minded discussion "
really? open-minded? since when? there is no open-minded here. you must be thinking of another place or not been here long. you have a conservative view on this blog and the result is utter vulgarity and redicule. please look way back before you land that claim. its not true here
brian at 8:10AM on Apr 23rd 2008
28. Joe JENkins:
LEARN ABOUT WHY THEY WANT TO KILL US FROM A FORMER TERRORIST
And we should listen to Pat Robertson why? I watched the video up until he claimed that no other religions such as Chrisitans and Hindus use suicide bombers and I wonder what Rajiv Ghandi would have to say about that. Perhaps a better perspective could be learned from this article.
http://www.sabeel.org/old/news/cstone25/suicidebombers.htm
JimCO at 8:11AM on Apr 23rd 2008
29. amg,
i said atheism is a shart,and please i think your vulagarity far exceeds mine. and i do not hate anyone. i just understand what the liberal left seeks. please read jerry's nice description. its dead on accurate. this is my objection. and no atheist are not all immoral and i never said they were. in fact i would concur most atheist at least in the realm of being socially responsible seem to be. but the liberal left is another matter. shart is not vulgar compared to the diatribe of ugly names you level at peaceful christians
brian at 8:14AM on Apr 23rd 2008
30. How do the right to blaspheme and the First Amendment differ?
Liberalism 2 is the logical progression of Liberalism 1.
Ryan Anderson at 8:23AM on Apr 23rd 2008