We've all heard of Black History Month, but have you heard about Atheist Bashing Week? It was Atheist Bashing Week for me as I did three debates over the past seven days with a new crop of leading atheists.
First on Monday April 21 I debated philosopher Walter Sinnott-Armstrong at Dartmouth before a large crowd. The 500-seat auditorium was full so they used an overflow room, which had hundreds more watching on a big screen. This was a scholarly debate in which Sinnott-Armstrong distanced himself from what he portrayed as the crude atheism of Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens. Against this village atheism, well represented among atheists who comment on this blog, Sinnott-Armstrong offered a more dignified atheism that he said recognizes the accomplishments of Christianity. In one revealing moment he event said schools and colleges should teach students that the crimes of Christianity, like the Inquisition and the Salem witch trials, pale before the crimes of atheist regimes like those of Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot. Overall this was an elevated debate, one of the more high-toned ones I've participated in.
Then on Tuesday April 22 I debated Dan Barker of the Freedom from Religion Foundation at Harvard. Here the audience was smaller, because Harvard is launching into final exams. But the debate was very sharp and lively. We didn't do the traditional opening statements followed by rebuttals and cross-examination and so on. Rather, a student panel posed questions to both of us, and we each answered, with the other person than having a chance to reply. This format suits me very well, and I found myself being able to develop arguments about epistemology and science more fully than in other formats. Later the atheist students who organized the debate complimented me on my performance, and one said that I had made numerous arguments that he had never thought of, and that were compelling him to rethink (although not abandon) his atheism.
Finally on Friday April 25 I debated the controversial Princeton philosopher Peter Singer at Biola University. This was the biggest event, with more than 2,500 in attendance. Since Biola is a Christian campus, the majority of those present were believers, although atheists were represented too. The Christian students treated Singer extremely well, which is not always how theists are received when they show up on secular campuses. I went first and focused on Singer's extreme views, such as his proposal that parents be allowed to kill their children up to the age of 28 days. Singer also thinks America and the West can learn from non-Western societies, not to mention ancient Greece and Rome, where children were routinely killed at much higher ages. Oddly enough this champion of infanticide and euthanasia also favors animal rights!
If this seems like a strange combination, the apparent paradox is resolved when you discover Singer's logic. Singer argues that we human beings are Darwinian primates. We are on a continuum with the other animals. It is Christianity, Singer charges, that came into the world and elevated human beings on a pedestal. It is Christianity that proclaimed that man is in the image of God, and that creation is for man's benefit. These ideas gave rise to the special dignity of man and human rights and moral principles such as "It is wrong to deliberately take human life." Singer thinks that now that we know God is dead, we should get rid of these principles and replace them with utilitarian considerations more in keeping with our animal nature. In a sense Singer is taking up Nietzsche's challenge--to rid our civilization not only of the Christian God but also of Christian morality--and his homicidal conclusions, which many people find horrific, are only a working-out of his atheist logic.
Surprisingly Singer didn't want to talk about any of this during our debate. In a way I can see why: who wants to defend killing three-week old infants in the presence of a largely-Christian audience! Instead Singer wanted to argue about why a just God allows suffering in the world, not only the suffering of children but also of animals. I didn't want our debate to be like two ships passing in the night, so I happily engaged Singer on those issues. He is a lucid and gentlemanly debater, and he complimented me for eschewing Bible citations in favor of reason and logic and history and science in developing my arguments. I praised him for having the guts to come to a Christian campus and debate me, quite a contrast from the invertebrate Richard Dawkins who seems terrified to take me on even at his native Oxford.
All these debates will soon be up on the web. I have now debated six leading atheists--Christopher Hitchens, Michael Shermer, Daniel Dennett, Walter Sinnott-Armstrong, Dan Barker, and Peter Singer. Hitchens and I already have a couple of rematches scheduled, and Singer has agreed to a second debate on the East Coast. I am also planning a debate next year with Harvard cognitive psychologist Steven Pinker. The mathematician John Allen Paulos, author of the new book Irreligion, has approached me about debating and we are looking for the appropriate venue. Over the next few years I am hoping to assemble the most extensive existing archive of "God v. Atheism" debates. Many churches are already showing these debates in order to educate and instruct believers. I wonder if atheist groups will have the confidence to air them at their conferences.
So far no takers though. And my challenges to Dawkins to step into the arena have only met with pathetic rationalization: "Richard is simply too busy and smart to debate you Dinesh." Busy doing what besides being caught with his pants down by Ben Stein? And I guess he's smart because he doesn't want to risk further embarassing himself and destroying his public reputation! Won't it be hilarious if the "party of faith" is unafraid of opposing arguments while the "party of reason" cannot withstand the arguments of its critics? This is what Henry James might describe as a most interesting turning of the screw.
Reader Comments ( Page 6 of 61)
76. //OFF TOPIC//
Sorry, but I just have to vent, and this is the only place I know of...
At work, we are not allowed to send email forwards for numerous reasons, one being this is a working environment, another being it bogs down our email server thingy, and three being not everyone wants those stupid things. However, many people disregard the rules, and most appear to be Christian people as the emails I get are religious like "Praise God every day! Send this to 20 people and you will be blessed!" (like god keeps track of email forwards) or somesuch nonsense. I usually delete these straight away, but for whatever reason I read one I recieved this morning 'cause it looked pretty harmless. But about 2/3 into the email we hit the religious gunk - and it annoyed the hell out of me. I can't complain, argue, and point out the obvious errors because all my coworkers are Christian, they sent me the email, and I have to work with these people everyday... so, please, forgive me but I have to vent!!
This is what the forward said, and my rebuttal:
"Why is it that our children can't read a Bible in school, but they can in prison?"
Sigh. They CAN read a bible in school. I mean, they had prayer circles at my high school before first bell around the flag pole, and that was 4 years ago. No one is trying to stop kids from reading their bibles, you just can't TEACH the bible in school. What is so hard to understand about that? Jeez! Are Christians always looking for ways they are 'discriminated' against?? Must they always feel the need to play victim?!
"Why do I have to swear on the Bible in court when The Ten Commandments cannot be displayed outside?"
Sigh. NOBODY does this anymore unless they WANT to. If you WANT to swear on the bible, you can. Otherwise, they just make you raise your right hand and take the oath. And the 10 Commandments can't be displayed because there needs to be a wall of seperation between religious organizations and the judicial system. Didn't you learn about the Salem Witch Trials in high school? Mixing religion and justice/law is dangerous and against the Constitution!! Fundie Conservatives love to say Libs and Dems hate America, but we're the only ones striving to preserve our Constitution!! The day the USA becomes a theocracy will be the day the greatest nation falls.
Whew! Anyway, thank you for letting me vent... feel free to reply/add-on... I just had to get that out.
//END RANT//
K at 11:13AM on Apr 28th 2008
77. I wonder if Huckabee would have declared Atheist Bashing Week a national event. Maybe a paid vacation. I could use this time at the beach. I'll just have to pack some protection in case beach patrollers take the holiday too seriously, and have a liberal definition of "atheist".
Mokele Mbembe at 11:13AM on Apr 28th 2008
78. As Barack Hussein Obama is afraid to debate Hillary Rodham Clinton, so is Richard Dawkins scared to debate Dinesh D'Souza. Bock, bock, Obama and Dawkins are chicken.
Hey, Dinesh, what do you think about how Yoko Ono is trying to shut down the EXPELLED movie?
When we attack atheist foundations of their anti-religious beliefs, like the THEORY of Evolution, they rally hard to defend their faith in anti-God beliefs. Theirs is a false religion in the pretend non-existence of God. They have made idols of space aliens and crystals to try to rationalize a non-belief in God. Quite primitive. Quite foolish.
Rev 3:16 at 11:15AM on Apr 28th 2008
79. MM,
no problem. i realized that if someone comes on here and begins quoting scripture he may sound like one of dd's followers.
Linda,
no prob on the mixup and thanks for the pat on the back. ive also never understood hate, religious or not.
well everyone it's lunch time here in orlando. later.
Jay at 11:16AM on Apr 28th 2008
80. Hi y'all. Back from Cleveland where I (and a few other authors) had a nice discussion about wiritng and other topics. It was friendly, academic, and not at all "bashing." And we got to see a Cleveland baseball game (G).
Too bad D'Idiot as so self=absorbed that he is totally oblivious that having a column titled "Atheist Bashing" is about as in-offensive as saying "Immigrant bashing," Indian bashing" or "Today We Acid Thread Sew the Lips of all Non-Native Born Columists Bashing with the Initials DD" (oops, sorry...wishful thinking). But hey, this is the same flapping moron that thought AIDS jokes were funny.
Would love to have him on one of my panels. we'd eat him for lunch, if he didn't run from the room screeching like his hair was on fire beforehand.
What a waste.
T.Brough at 11:25AM on Apr 28th 2008
81. Linda:
Many become the "righteous cops" because of their fear of being prosecuted by God for believing someone is a good person no matter what their beliefs/opinions are. Fear causes the hate and ignorance. Technically, the Bible is a book (putting it in simple terms for the cops). Books are pretty simple. It is what it is. That is that. I always believed it spoke truth. When certain people learn their faith, some are installed with fear and ignorance. So they pick apart the Bible to make what they were raised with (thought wise)seem correct. Unfortunately, little do they realise, they become hipocrates. Going against the word of God unknowingly. I hope for them to one day see what they inforce upon others. They will have that awkward moment and realise maybe they were actually worse then most atheists who like to sit there and talk about the tooth fairy.
Thank you for the site :)
Elizabeth at 11:22AM on Apr 28th 2008
82. "Hey, Dinesh, what do you think about how Yoko Ono is trying to shut down the EXPELLED movie?" - Rev 3:16
They used John Lennon's "Imagine" without permission. What of it? Isn't stealing un-Christlike?
Jay,
I live in Orlando too! Oooo... spooky...
K at 11:24AM on Apr 28th 2008
83. MIW,
Thank you for your message the other night on the other blog. It was appreciated.
In your last few comments on the other blog, that "God Cannot Lie". I hope you realize, that you are wrong. God can do whatever He wants, and according to Scriptures(Since this is what you like to go off of), he has Lied several times.
Case in point:
There are many truths found in the Holy Scriptures that many present day Christians find unpalatable. Most Christians today do not read their Bibles, so they don't come across these truths, and the modern versions are doing their best to hide them, if one should stumble upon them in God's word. Such is the case with Ezekiel 14:9.
The context is clearly about a false prophet and the person who comes to him. Beginning at Ezekiel 14:7 we read: "For everyone of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself; And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. And IF THE PROPHET BE DECEIVED when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD HAVE DECEIVED that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel. And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity; the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him." (Eze. 14:7-11)
God does deceive. 2 Thessalonians 2:11 tells of those who received not the love of the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness and "for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."
Isaiah 29:10
"For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes; the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered."
Matthew 11:25-26
"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because THOU HAST HID THESE THINGS from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight."
In 1 Kings 22:19-23 the LORD was sitting on his throne and all the host of heaven were about Him. He asked who shall persuade Ahab that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead. A spirit volunteered to go forth and be a lying spirit in the mouth of his prophets. "Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets."
Job 12:16 tells us "the deceived and the deceiver are his."
Here in Ezekiel 14:9 the phrase "If the prophet be DECEIVED when he hath spoken a thing, I THE LORD HAVE DECEIVED that prophet" is the same in the Geneva Bible 1599, Coverdale 1535, Bishop's Bible 1568, the Revised Version 1881, the ASV 1901, the RSV, NRSV, the 2001 ESV, Green's interlinear, the 1936 Hebrew-English translation put out by the Hebrew Publishing Company, New York, the Catholic Douay Version 1950, the St. Joseph New American Bible 1970, Bible in Basic English 1961, the Spanish Reina Valera 1960, the KJV 21st Century, the Itlalian Diodati, the Greek Septuagint, Lamsa's 1933 translation of the Syriac Peshitta, and the 2003 Holman Standard Version.
Again, I understand your intentions and you mean well. But God certainly can lie, and has lied to do the things that he does. We cannot comprehend God and we shouldn't assume to.
Botts at 11:31AM on Apr 28th 2008
84. I knew y'all would love this one.
Man_in_Wilderness at 11:40AM on Apr 28th 2008
85. Thanks Botts, just saw this blog, and your post. I will certainly respond, however a busy day in the wilderness. I am sure you know what I mean. You have a good trip, and take care. I will post later.
Man_in_Wilderness at 11:45AM on Apr 28th 2008
86. Rev,
There's a reason Expelled sank below the 6% RT rating of "Date Movie", and it's not because of evil atheists. (Before ID supporters tried to squeeze in good reviews to save face). This is the realm of "The Hottie & The Nottie". Is it so hard to accept that the film is simply deceptive and manipulative and tactically sleazy?
Mokele Mbembe at 11:47AM on Apr 28th 2008
87. Botts...
If god lies, why the devotion?
Help me understand, I belive differently and this is one of the reasons.
mac at 11:51AM on Apr 28th 2008
88. What are you trying to prove with your blog Dinesh? Seriously, this is the biggest waste of time I have ever seen. I go on AOL and see the titles of your blogs, for example like this one "Athestist Bashing Week." With a title like this, do you think you are doing any good? All you are doing is adding fuel to a 3000 year old fire that should have been put out ages ago.
The first thing I think of when someone constantly tries to prove their "faith" is that person does not have much faith in their faith. If you truly believed in your faith, others peoples beliefs wouldn't matter to you and you wouldn't spend so much useless time trying to convince people otherwise. Yet, you are constantly trying to "bash" athesists with your blog. In my opinion, you know your faith is flawed, and you are trying to prove it right to yourself by constantly arguing with people to reitrate your "strong points" to yourself. You are wasting your time; people who have made their minds up aren't going to change it unless a god comes out from the sky and reveals itself. Faith is something that is personal; an indivdual uses faith to comfort themselves, to feel better about the world, and to share their experiences with others. Guess what Dinesh, some people don't need this comforting and help themselves in other ways. Not everyone needs a god to function in the world, and when you truly understand what I'm saying, you will realize what your doing is useless.
jgstk2301 at 4:26PM on Apr 28th 2008
89. "Botts...
If god lies, why the devotion?
Help me understand, I belive differently and this is one of the reasons." Mac
Hey Mac!
This is tough for me to answer. First off, I can only answer for myself. I can't speak for other believers.
It's not devotion Mac. It's acknowledgment. I've acknowledged God and accepted that He is here many years ago. Had nothing to do with the Bible. I believe that understanding and accepting a force greater than I, has helped me understand the Bible in a way I believe should be understood.
This isn't about belief brother Mac. This is about knowledge.
I believe in Jesus Christ and what he taught.
but ...
I know God.
And it has nothing to do with the after life. This could be it for us, and I'm completely fine with it. I'm just acknowledging what has been here and continues to be here.
Institutionalized Religion gets in the way of people truly capable of knowing and acknowledging what we call "God".
Most believers are just that: believers
Not knowers.
Botts at 12:00PM on Apr 28th 2008
90. If the grammar and spelling were corrected I would agree with the heading of DD's entry today:
"Atheist Bashing, Weak"
That's a little better.
mac at 12:03PM on Apr 28th 2008