Last night in Orange County I had one of my liveliest debates with atheist Christopher Hitchens and the Jewish radio host Dennis Prager. The debate--a sort of Christian-Atheist-Jew slugfest--was held at the Bat Yahm synagogue in Newport Beach. There was a sellout crowd of 1,500, with about 400 turned away.
The debate was unusual in that it involved not two but three different perspectives. Hitchens was particularly harsh in his exchanges with Prager, at one point accusing Prager of covering up for anti-Semitism. My exchanges with Hitchens were consistently sharp but also mutually respectful, and later Hitchens told me that I am one of the most formidable debaters that he has ever faced. I predict this debate will generate huge interest when it is posted on the web. After the debate Hitchens joined my wife and me at the bar where we downed two bottles of Pinot Noir and solved many of the world's problems.
Since our debate focused on God as understood from a Christian, Jewish and atheist perspective, missing from the event was a Muslim perspective. This is a pity, because one staple item of atheist rhetoric is the equation of Islamic extremism with Christianity. In my cross-examination I pressed Hitchens on this issue, and will let viewers watch our exchange for themselves and make up their own minds.
We find the equation between "Islamic fundamentalism" and "Christian fundamentalism" not only among the new atheists but also in the popular culture. Several weeks ago Christiane Amanpour of CNN did her special on "God's Warriors." The premise: The Abrahamic religions all lead to extremism. So Amanpour did three segments, one on Islamic extremism, one on Jewish extremism and one on Christian extremism.
Striking to the viewer, however, was the strained attempt to equate the three. Islamic extremism featured the 9/11 attacks, the Bali bombing, the London bombing, the Madrid bombing, and the list goes on. What about Christian extremism? Well, there was Christiane Amanpour in desperate search for the Christian Bin Laden, the Christian Al Qaeda, the Christian Hamas, the Christian Hezbollah, the Christian state currently run along the lines of post-Khomeini Iran.
Poor Christiane came up empty handed. So she was forced to locate marginal groups which would be repudiated by 99.9 percent of Christians and try to pass them off as the Christian equivalent of the Islamic radicals. I was especially interested to find out that there is an old guy in the hills of Montana who wants to blow up the world in the name of Jesus. Too bad he's broke and doesn't have any teeth. Still, one day he hopes to get a job and carry out his nefarious plans. I suppose this is the closest thing to a Christian Bin Laden. We are all supposed to be very afraid of this man!
One of the new atheists very cleverly termed 9/11 a "faith based initiative." But the witticism conceals an intellectual sleight-of-hand. Bush merely wants the government to be able to support faith-based charities on the same basis as it supports secular charities. What happened at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon seven years ago can hardly be placed in the same intellectual category.
Of late some of the new atheists are backing off from their fraudulent analogy between Islamic extremism and Christianity. This is a powerful blow to the new atheism, because so much of its relevance came from its ability to surf on the wave of current events and interpret modern terrorism as the expression of a generic religious impulse. In reality Bin Laden is more accurately compared to an atheist despot like Pol Pot. I realize the analogy is not entirely fair--to Bin Laden! After all, Bin Laden's death toll (several thousand killed over a dozen years) doesn't come closer to Pol Pot's 2 million killed in the space of three years.
Besides, Pol Pot was a Little League atheist compared to Mao and Stalin, whose death toll was in the tens of millions. When it comes to mass murder in the modern era, Islamic radicalism simply cannot keep up with atheism.
Reader Comments ( Page 3 of 53)
31. again - you give Jews too much of a break. They are creating war in the Middle east. American Jews have historically supported Native American, Japanese, and African American liberal causes relating the denial of equal treatment. But in Israel they discriminate based on race and religion (Blacks from Darfur, Muslims and Christians have all reported that they a second class citizens to Jewish Israelis). Jews believe the land they stole was just being reclaimed because it was given to them by GOD. Hitchens and other Atheists are total Cowards because the attach Christians and Muslims only and give Jews a free pass. So do you D'Sousa - and it is pathetic.
taylor at 5:10PM on May 2nd 2008
32. @31
Case in point.
Mokele Mbembe at 5:12PM on May 2nd 2008
33. Fanman, my apologies, I should have clarified and used the term extremist for all three groups that I included.
JefFlyingV at 5:21PM on May 2nd 2008
34.
Just watched part of a "sermon" of John Hagee, one of those megachurch pastors' who has just endorsed John McCain.
In it, he rants about welfare. He says "In the bible, the bible says the man who does not work should not eat. I still think that ought to be the law in the United States of America. If you don't want to get off your blessed assurance and go to work, STARVE! I don't care! Starve! I don't feel sorry for you! Go to work!"
That line is from the old testament. Jesus, on the other hand said:
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
THIS is the problem with religion. People use it however they want to use it. When Jesus spoke of feeding the hungry, NOWHERE did he say anything about "did you work today?"
Virtually all religions have contradictory statements, and you can use it however you want. God is is wrathful, God is loving. Wrathful if you don't believe in invisible nonsense, loving of blind obedience.
ex-christian at 5:21PM on May 2nd 2008
35. I watched the Zeitgeist movie...I must say finally ...the truth...can I say that... or will I be killed for agreeing to it...oh wait...I'm dying from HIV and my government controls wether I get my medition so...either way...hmmm oh...if I buy a supplement insurance program at a government controlled insurance program...hhhmmm does that come out of my disabitity check or since I'm married I get penatilized by the government...hmmm and I can't go to the bank for a loan cause I can't get credit cause I am not aloud to earn extra money or I lose my government funded benefits ....hmmmm so I guess I just should die...oh wait ...maybe just maybe...everyone could pray that I was healed and then since my prayers weren't enough...with help...I'll be healed....while I'm waiting...can anyone really help(not just me but all the victims of all the illness)...or better yet do I need to go to the banker of the world and plead for mercy and call him or her (they did have a few girls) GOD...or should I pretend my vote counts and pray my vote counts...which god promised to me my prayers will come true.......and I'll (we'LL)get a change...a big great change...and they will even provide the change for me...and my chip is free...that is as long as I pay for my Passport to Freedom.....Wow Wow Wow....
Ghee...when's church.....
I loved that movie....finally it all makes sence...
Pati at 5:23PM on May 2nd 2008
36. A perfect example of Fundamental Christianity involvement in politics is the Academic freedom act. In its first form introduced in 2000 it read that ID and Evolution should be taught side by side. Since ID is not a science the bill was struck down. Now it is being introduced as critical thinking, which is fine as long as one doesn't call it a scientific observation. Even this new version introduced in March says ID is scientific information, changed it currently says: provided a protected right for teachers to objectively present scientific information relating to scientific views of the teaching of evolution.
These provisions are eliminated from the bill. Instead, the House amendment requires teachers to provide a thorough presentation and scientific critical analysis of the scientific theory of evolution. This revise might make the bill pass but it is not bad since it does not allow ID to be presented as a science.
goddess1prevail at 5:29PM on May 2nd 2008
37. 40 million dead American babies murdered by "legal" abortion, which atheists support but Christians want to stop!
Rev,
you need to get educated on facts before you post nonsense.
"Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical".
So in fact 68% of abortions are done by Christians.
http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html
goddess1prevail at 5:32PM on May 2nd 2008
38. Rev, if there are so many abortions occurring in the U.S., how do you account for the large numbers? I have strong suspicions some of your christian sisters are taking advantage of the system.
And no, your hero DoubleD does not have me quaking in my boots.
JefFlyingV at 5:34PM on May 2nd 2008
39. So in fact 68% of abortions are done by Christians.
http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html
goddess1prevail at 5:32PM on May 2nd 2008
--==--
Yes, Ma'am. But are they true christians?
mac at 5:36PM on May 2nd 2008
40. Yes, Ma'am. But are they true christians?
Is anyone?
goddess1prevail at 5:37PM on May 2nd 2008
41. Where did everybody go?
I guess I tend to scare 'em off!
goddess1prevail at 5:47PM on May 2nd 2008
42.
Maybe somebody should finally invent GHB's idea of a Christometer.
We could put one in all the abortion clinics so we would know the actual numbers of "true christians" who get abortions.
FL Chick at 5:52PM on May 2nd 2008
43. [punches card in clock]
Alright, ladies and gents, time for this good little blogger to run along home. This topic has been re-hashed by Dinesh too many times. Instead of his usual nonsense, gloating, prideful posts it'd be nice if he actually commented on a news story like every other NEWS blogger... but oh well. Dinesh is more important than the news apparently.
K at 5:55PM on May 2nd 2008
44. Sad that our children are signing up for war because for so many of them...it's the only way to further there education...they take a chance at dying for an education...then come home and many have a life long battle of post tramaic stress...that's terror....the bankers kids should go...oh wait the prince wants to go....idiot...oh wait...God will protect him...and if not...it was God's will...or was it the queens...well something like that.....or maybe it's Human sacrifice...one prince to war...one princess gets to marry...fair deal...for the banker.....
Pati at 6:02PM on May 2nd 2008
45. JFV; thanks, much apprec.
Goddess; if your numbers are accurate, and I don't have time to research right now, then I am saddened and sickened by it.
Chick; there is a meter: "Ye shall know them by their fruit". Christians aborting babies is bad fruit, in my humble opinion.
fanmanaf1 at 6:08PM on May 2nd 2008