Peter Singer is a calm, lucid and able debater, and our debate at Biola University in Los Angeles on April 25 was lively and hard-fought. Not for nothing is Singer considered a world-class philosopher and advocate. You can watch the debate here.
Singer praised me for not simply making assertions of faith or hurling Bible passages at him but rather for using reason and argument to make my case . And I complimented Singer for stepping, so to speak, into the lion's den. (Biola actually stands for Bible Institute of Los Angeles.) Unlike the pusillanimous Richard Dawkins, who doesn't dare to debate me even at his home campus of Oxford, Singer was brave to come to a Christian campus to dispute the resolution "God: Yes or No." The audience of 3,000 was mostly though not exclusively Christian.
So perhaps atheism has found an able advocate. But unbelievers may want to think twice before lining up behind Singer, who argues in favor of infanticide, euthanasia and (this is not a joke) animal rights! One of Singer's interesting proposals concerns what may be called "fourth trimester" abortions, i.e. the right to kill one's offspring even after birth!
Here are some choice Singer quotations on the subject which I get from his books Rethinking Life and Death and Writings on an Ethical Life.
On how mothers should be permitted to kill their offspring until the age of 28 days: "My colleague Helga Kuhse and I suggest that a period of twenty-eight days after birth might be allowed before an infant is accepted as having the same right to life as others."
On why abortion is less morally significant than killing a rat: "Rats are indisputably more aware of their surroundings, and more able to respond in purposeful and complex ways to things they like or dislike, than a fetus at ten or even thirty-two weeks gestation."
On why pigs, chickens and fish have more rights to life than unborn humans: "The calf, the pig, and the much-derided chicken come out well ahead of the fetus at any stage of pregnancy, while if we make the comparison with a fetus of less than three months, a fish would show more signs of consciousness."
On why infants aren't normal human beings with rights to life and liberty: "Characteristics like rationality, autonomy and self-consciousness...make a difference. Infants lack these characteristics. Killing them, therefore, cannot be equated with killing normal human beings."
In my opening statement I showed the profound connection between Singer's Darwinian atheism and his advocacy of infanticide and euthanasia. Remarkably Singer responded by saying he didn't come to debate his bioethical views! Rather, he wanted the debate to focus exclusively on the question of whether God exists or not. I didn't want this to be a debate in which Singer and I ended up talking on completely different subjects, so I engaged him on his chosen ground.
Even so, I was disappointed that Singer wouldn't stand up for the opinions that have made him famous, or infamous. Our topic resolution was broad enough to permit a discussion both of the existence of God and also of the social implications of the theist and the atheist positions. I view Singer's work as exploring the consequences of living in a truly secular society, devoid not only of the Christian God but also of Christian morality.
So while Christianity introduced into Western civilization the concept of dignity of human life, Singer explicitly says we have to get rid of this outdated concept. He contends that God is dead and we should recognize ourselves as Darwinian primates who enjoy no special status compared to the other animals. In the animal kingdom, after all, parents sometimes kill and even devour their offpsring. Singer argues that the West can learn from the other cultures like the Kalahari where children are routinely killed when they are unwanted, even when they are several years old.
Some of Singer's critics call him a Nazi and compare his proposals to Hitler's schemes for eliminating the unwanted, the unfit and the disabled. But as I note in the debate, Singer is no Hitler. He doesn't want state-sponsored killings. Rather, he wants the decision to kill to be made by you and me. Instead of government-conducted genocide, Singer favors free-market homicide.
Given the connection that Singer draws between atheism and child murder, using the former as his premise to recommend the latter, I wonder if our atheist friends are going to rush to embrace this guy as one of their heroes. Is Singer showing us where the road to complete secularism actually leads?
Reader Comments ( Page 5 of 49)
61. Misti; "majority of human beings do not revel in eating babies"
A lot of people enjoy veal.
Ryan Anderson at 1:34PM on May 9th 2008
62. Of course, janesophie, the zealot rita with grammar rushes to the blog when abortion is a possible discussion. She wants to stick her business in our uteri and tell us what to do with our bodies.
As for your bible, here is the scoop on the bible and abortion:
http://www.elroy.net/ehr/abortion.html
But I'll bet a bucket of Maryland Crabs that not one of you zealots will read that essay all the way through.
js is just another extremist/fascist/catholic.
Glad you don't post here much. You're a one note song.
Linda at 1:34PM on May 9th 2008
63. @50 "not hard to understand the concept of not agreeing with abortion. I certainly don't.
Misti at 1:18PM"
Nobody "agrees with" abortion. If you don't like it, don't have one.
But it's not "pro-life" versus "pro-abortion." Nobody is IN FAVOR of abortion. It's not like there are picket signs with "Abortion, YES! Babies NO!!" out there.
It's about the right of a woman to have control of her own body, and to have the freedom to choose to terminate a fetus that is in the early stages of development.
brandon at 1:34PM on May 9th 2008
64. Also, you think that rape is easy to prove? Girl gets raped and she has this great big light over her head that says 'I was raped?' Guess again. A girl slipped GHB has less than 24 hours to get bloodwork done before it disappears.
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That's wrong. Once they try me, I'm in their blood forever.........
Godless Heathen Brian at 1:37PM on May 9th 2008
65. Linda,
jane is pretty far into the Catholic rabbit hole, but I don't think she's enough of a zealot for the "William Hays" treatment.
Mokele Mbembe at 1:40PM on May 9th 2008
66. GHB: LMAO.
You remind me a lot of my brohter, Joel. He's a bit of a rake and roue also. And a heart of gold.
Linda at 1:41PM on May 9th 2008
67. No, Moke, she's a zealot with absolutely no understanding or empathy towards pro-choice.
She's much worse than William.
Linda at 1:42PM on May 9th 2008
68. Jane had problems talking to that dullard JefFlyingV, she couldn't admit she lived in the 'nunnery' at Ball State.
JefFlyingV at 1:44PM on May 9th 2008
69. Linda
You are very angry! I hesitate to ask this question. Have you had an abortion? You seem to need justification.
janesophie1 at 1:44PM on May 9th 2008
70. Why is it so hard for Dinesh D'Souza to understand that there are not "leading" atheists. There are not leaders. It's not a church.
Singer is an idiot, and so is D'Souza.
Davidg at 1:44PM on May 9th 2008
71. Js does seem to be one of those christians that sees it as their side is pro-life, and our side of course, is the opposite, since they can't see shades of gray. SO this casts US in the "pro-death" mold, just as their pastors want it to be.
They're great at propogandizing anything.
As IF we atheists want to KILL BABIES!! (How DARE you?)(Say it to my face and see what happens!)
You people are the real SICKOS, for even thinking it. Shame on you, not that you'll ever feel ashamed, since you don't care about the truth, not even a little bit.
Godless Heathen Brian at 1:45PM on May 9th 2008
72. 68. Linda
You are very angry! I hesitate to ask this question. Have you had an abortion? You seem to need justification.
janesophie1 at 1:44PM on May 9th 2008
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JS, you are very stupid! I hesitate to ask this question. Have you had a lobotomy? You seem to need justification.
Godless Heathen Brian at 1:48PM on May 9th 2008
73. "If God doesn’t exist; why talk about him? If there is no truth; why insist on tolerance?" - janesophie1
Because you and your kind keep bringing him up, especially where he doesn't belong - public school and government.
"One must not look at what the Catholic church has done and say 'Christians' did it. The Catholic church is not Christian -- they are Mary worshippers. True Christians do not worship Mary. Great comments DD, keep up the good work." - Carol
LOL!!! This comment is hilarious. Mostly because Carol has no idea DD *is* Catholic.
K at 1:50PM on May 9th 2008
74. JS, I want to eat your babies. Do they go well with A1 Sauce? Good, tender baby flesh is so hard to come by nowadays. I've had to import it from China. Along with my komodo dragon steaks.
Do you people take retard pills?
Godless Heathen Brian at 1:52PM on May 9th 2008
75. Here's a DARE for the hypochrists.
I DARE YOU to look up who does the most child raping, christians or non-christians.
I'm sure it's a similar percentage as the percentage of christians in prison, which is in the 80's last time I checked. Or the percentage of people that get abortions, also mainly christian. Actually, I bet it's even higher. After all, we already KNOW that christians like child flesh.
http://armchairsubversive.org/
Godless Heathen Brian at 1:56PM on May 9th 2008