Peter Singer is a calm, lucid and able debater, and our debate at Biola University in Los Angeles on April 25 was lively and hard-fought. Not for nothing is Singer considered a world-class philosopher and advocate. You can watch the debate here.
Singer praised me for not simply making assertions of faith or hurling Bible passages at him but rather for using reason and argument to make my case . And I complimented Singer for stepping, so to speak, into the lion's den. (Biola actually stands for Bible Institute of Los Angeles.) Unlike the pusillanimous Richard Dawkins, who doesn't dare to debate me even at his home campus of Oxford, Singer was brave to come to a Christian campus to dispute the resolution "God: Yes or No." The audience of 3,000 was mostly though not exclusively Christian.
So perhaps atheism has found an able advocate. But unbelievers may want to think twice before lining up behind Singer, who argues in favor of infanticide, euthanasia and (this is not a joke) animal rights! One of Singer's interesting proposals concerns what may be called "fourth trimester" abortions, i.e. the right to kill one's offspring even after birth!
Here are some choice Singer quotations on the subject which I get from his books Rethinking Life and Death and Writings on an Ethical Life.
On how mothers should be permitted to kill their offspring until the age of 28 days: "My colleague Helga Kuhse and I suggest that a period of twenty-eight days after birth might be allowed before an infant is accepted as having the same right to life as others."
On why abortion is less morally significant than killing a rat: "Rats are indisputably more aware of their surroundings, and more able to respond in purposeful and complex ways to things they like or dislike, than a fetus at ten or even thirty-two weeks gestation."
On why pigs, chickens and fish have more rights to life than unborn humans: "The calf, the pig, and the much-derided chicken come out well ahead of the fetus at any stage of pregnancy, while if we make the comparison with a fetus of less than three months, a fish would show more signs of consciousness."
On why infants aren't normal human beings with rights to life and liberty: "Characteristics like rationality, autonomy and self-consciousness...make a difference. Infants lack these characteristics. Killing them, therefore, cannot be equated with killing normal human beings."
In my opening statement I showed the profound connection between Singer's Darwinian atheism and his advocacy of infanticide and euthanasia. Remarkably Singer responded by saying he didn't come to debate his bioethical views! Rather, he wanted the debate to focus exclusively on the question of whether God exists or not. I didn't want this to be a debate in which Singer and I ended up talking on completely different subjects, so I engaged him on his chosen ground.
Even so, I was disappointed that Singer wouldn't stand up for the opinions that have made him famous, or infamous. Our topic resolution was broad enough to permit a discussion both of the existence of God and also of the social implications of the theist and the atheist positions. I view Singer's work as exploring the consequences of living in a truly secular society, devoid not only of the Christian God but also of Christian morality.
So while Christianity introduced into Western civilization the concept of dignity of human life, Singer explicitly says we have to get rid of this outdated concept. He contends that God is dead and we should recognize ourselves as Darwinian primates who enjoy no special status compared to the other animals. In the animal kingdom, after all, parents sometimes kill and even devour their offpsring. Singer argues that the West can learn from the other cultures like the Kalahari where children are routinely killed when they are unwanted, even when they are several years old.
Some of Singer's critics call him a Nazi and compare his proposals to Hitler's schemes for eliminating the unwanted, the unfit and the disabled. But as I note in the debate, Singer is no Hitler. He doesn't want state-sponsored killings. Rather, he wants the decision to kill to be made by you and me. Instead of government-conducted genocide, Singer favors free-market homicide.
Given the connection that Singer draws between atheism and child murder, using the former as his premise to recommend the latter, I wonder if our atheist friends are going to rush to embrace this guy as one of their heroes. Is Singer showing us where the road to complete secularism actually leads?
Reader Comments ( Page 7 of 49)
91. Anti-Intelligence JanoSophie1, if you've dedicated your life to reversing roe v wade, imagine how many babies you might have saved in your life if you'd spent it adopting unwanted children instead.
And if they ever do overturn Roe V Wade, I can assume that then finally, you and others like you will adopt the many, many more unwanted and unloved babies of undereducated ethnic christian crack whores with aids....
Godless Heathen Brian at 2:34PM on May 9th 2008
92. Christian. And not just any christian, but her family was very much into their faith and their church. It was very much a "life style" for them. And the reason the mother was most FOR the abortion... she didn't want the embarrassment of having a pregnant teen daughter going to church with the family.
Can you believe that shit!
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My wife got pregnant as a teen, at 18. (She had the baby) Her parents refused to take her to church with them when she started to show, because it wouldn't look right. Not that she wanted to go, but still. They also refused to give her a baby shower.
Godless Heathen Brian at 2:41PM on May 9th 2008
93. Godless Heathen Brian
You are either pro-abortion or pro-life. The choice you advocate results in the death of millions of innocent human beings. In that sense, I affirm without hesitation that pro-choice is a clever euphemism for pro-abortion. I liken it to the Nazi use of the phrase, "Final Solution" which was a diabolical way of avoiding the fact that they were committing genocide against the Jewish people. I dislike the phrase pro-choice. It is deceitful and was created by cowards that use their strength; not to protect, but to destroy the helpless and defenseless.
janesophie1 at 2:43PM on May 9th 2008
94. js, you can "dedicate your life" to whatever fool's errand you wish, but Roe V Wade will NEVER be reversed, because it CAN'T be done legally without changing the Constitution. And the day that happens is the day Liberty dies and women become slaves and the Great Experiment of the United States ceases to exist. Too many people have fought and died for that liberty to let you fascists win.
If you want to "dedicate your life" to something worthwhile, why don't you work to make abortion UNNECESSARY in the first place? Instead of threatening doctors and abortion clinic workers, why don't you aim all that anger at the rappers and other vermin who dehumanize women (especially black women) and glorify impregnating as many women as possible without taking any responsibility? Why don't you work at reaching adolescent females whose only route to self esteem is having a "boyfriend"? Or befriending the young girls who turn to sex since it is the only positive reinforcement in their lives? I could list a hundred options for you that might actually MAKE A DIFFERENCE, unlike the route you are taking.
Kodiak at 2:45PM on May 9th 2008
95. Let's look at a few simplistic lables, and then examine your soul and maturity level. "...Singer, who argues in favor of infanticide, euthanasia and (this is not a joke) animal rights!"
Infanticide - Do you really think Singer wants to kill infants, or is DD painting with a wide brush for shock value. If I said that "Christians embrace Incest" since they profess all humans came from Adam and Eve or later from Noah's Arc, would you like hearing that generalization? Be an adult when you have these discussions. Neither side is "evil". Stop wasting my time.
Steve Ogg
Steve Ogg at 2:47PM on May 9th 2008
96. 93. Godless Heathen Brian
You are either pro-abortion or pro-life. The choice you advocate results in the death of millions of innocent human beings. In that sense, I affirm without hesitation that pro-choice is a clever euphemism for pro-abortion. I liken it to the Nazi use of the phrase, "Final Solution" which was a diabolical way of avoiding the fact that they were committing genocide against the Jewish people. I dislike the phrase pro-choice. It is deceitful and was created by cowards that use their strength; not to protect, but to destroy the helpless and defenseless.
janesophie1 at 2:43PM on May 9th 2008
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Pro-Stupidity JanoSophie,
I am done talking to an ignorant, insulting child. You reek of narrowmindedness and hatred of the unfamiliar. It is a stench that sickens me. It is the very mindset that STARTED the Nazi party. Yours. Not mine. If you were there, you'd have been a supporter, justifying it through your faith, as you justify efverything you do. After all, he did say Gott Mit Uns, so I'm sure he would have appealed to you.
Have a nice day.
Godless Heathen Brian at 2:51PM on May 9th 2008
97. Jane; You are either pro-abortion or you are anti-freedom.
See, word games are fun!
Ryan Anderson at 2:52PM on May 9th 2008
98. Kodiak,
There is a precedent for a task as difficult as overturning Roe vs. Wade. It is called the Abolitionist Movement. I am sure that many abolitionists never thought that the African slave trade would be outlawed or that slavery would be abolished, but justice did prevail. I may not live to see it, but Roe vs. Wade will be overturned someday.
janesophie1 at 2:56PM on May 9th 2008
99. So much for those forgiving, understanding, loving christians, huh GHB.
Yea at that age my parents told me if I ever got pregnant they would kick me out of the house and forget they ever knew me.
I took myself to the "government supported" clinic and got me some birth control pills at the age of 16, I wasn't sexually active at that point, but what my mom and dad threatened was just plain scary. I didn't have a boyfriend, but many of my friends did and I knew they were active.
I planned my life, and my children. But my mother never supported me, just threatened me. That is what good catholic mothers do.
I'm glad I'm not a good catholic mother anymore.
I love my daughter too much to treat her like my mother treated me.
I didn't have my daughter for my convenience or for "show". It was from the first moment I breathed in the scent of my children, looked into their eyes, eyes that watched me so intently, that I knew I could never turn away from them.
That said, I've taught them well and they are truly good - for their sake, not mine.
TJ at 2:58PM on May 9th 2008
100. Godless Heathen Brian
Your hatred is palpable, but it is you that would have fallen prey to Nazism. I believe in God. I believe that he created all human life. We are made in his image. The Nazis believed that human beings should decide what is right or wrong and therefore you would fit their philosophy perfectly. I would rather be an ignorant child than an intelligent fool!
janesophie1 at 3:01PM on May 9th 2008
101. I really think abortion is the establishments way of getting Christians to redirect their focus to something stupid and meaningless and away from the world changing good stuff that Christianity really stands for (anti-poverty, anti-oppression, anti-war, equality, etc...). The establishment doesn't want the world changed, after all.
Just my thoughts.
Oh, and it you use Mozilla as your browser, it let's you spell check your comments. Just FYI.
Ryan Anderson at 3:01PM on May 9th 2008
102. We need abortion.
yoyoyogi1220 at 3:01PM on May 9th 2008
103. You are either pro-abortion or pro-life.
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Then I must be pro-life as well, if those are the only two choices. And it fits pretty well, since I do care about the life of the mother as well as the child, and the later life of the unwanted babies whose mothers can't afford to feed or clothe them or get them medical attention, and the expense that will incur to our society both in money and in increased crime. Funny, I still think abortion should be a legal option, and I'm pro-life. But at least I have a good-sounding label now...
I love life, all life, so I'm definitely pro-life.
Hey, it occurrs to me that anti-intelligence JanoSophie isn't as pro-life as I am here... Hmm... What to call her... What to call her...
Godless Heathen Brian at 3:02PM on May 9th 2008
104. if my mother aborted me instead of giving me up i might not have been a loser or gay.
i have no one
yoyoyogi1220 at 3:04PM on May 9th 2008
105. 102. Godless Heathen Brian
Your hatred is palpable
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I do hate stupidity. It's one of my failings.
Yours however, could fill an encyclopedia.
Godless Heathen Brian at 3:04PM on May 9th 2008