According to the AFP, the California Supreme Court today overturned the ban on same-sex marriage, calling domestic partnerships a poor substitute for marriage:In an opinion that analysts say could have nationwide implications for the issue, the seven-member panel voted 4-3 in favor of plaintiffs who argued that restricting marriage to men and women was discriminatory.
There's a precedent for California starting a domino effect. David Cruz, a law professor at the University of Southern California and an expert in constitutional law, says in the AFP article:
"In the 20th century California was the first state to strike down laws against inter-racial marriage. They did that 19 years before the US Supreme Court got around to it."
So, soon (er, in 19 years) we could be a nation that grants gay couples the same rights as straight ones. How does it feel?
Reader Comments ( Page 2 of 9)
16. I am not "gay", but after reading some of the madness posted here, I'm inclined to remind some obviously prejudiced people of a few things.
Many scientific associations have reach majority consensus that sexual orientation is not a "choice", including the American Psychological Association. After all, who would "chose" to be in a minority orientation knowing that they will be killed, beaten or met with the type of verbal "holier than thou" hypocrisy and hatred we see in this forum.
1.) Most "Christians" I've met can't even recite half of the Ten Commandments, none of which mentions homosexuality, but one of which states that we should "NOT work on the Sabbath". If we're going to deny two consenting adults the equal right to marry based on an ancient book of fairy tales, then we may as well deny rights for the millions of people who "WORK on the Sabbath" - and the ones who employee them by going to their places of business on the Sabbath - resteraunts, theaters, malls, etc.
2.) The bible mentions "gluttony" far more as an "abomination" than it does homosexuality. How many gluttonous Christians do we know? I know plenty, including Jerry Falwell, who's gluttony led to his heart attack, to name just one of many "Christians" who died of obesity. Isn't the body God's temple to these "Christians"?
3.) God, who allegedly is the "all-knowing all-creator", by definition created different sexual orientations, as they are found in millions of people in all cultures throughout history. There are even intersexed people found in all cultures - people BORN with BOTH male and female organs - who do the lying Christians suggest THEY have the right marry?
3.) Marriage is not just for "pro-creation". There are millions of Christian couples who either cannot or will not have children in an already growing and overpopulated world with food and clean water shortages amounting to 1.5 million deaths of children each year. There are millions of more "Christians" known as nuns and priests who will also not have children.
4.) Alexander The Great was bisexual, but mostly gay, and many famous Army Generals consider him to be the greatest General of all times. The Greek culture prospered for centuries until the Christianity was adopted by the Romans and then we saw the ushering in of the dark ages, the inquisition, witch huntings, and anyone not Christian, gay or biologically different in any way were burned at the stake or tortured and killed "in the name of god".
5.) In a democracy that respects equality, the national and State Constitutions are designed to protect minorities such as NONheterosexuals from the ignorance and emotional prejudices of the majority. When the majority tries to ram their religious beliefs down the throats of the world to support their pet prejudices, the Supreme Court has to listen to rational debate. The Supreme Court those not only protects minority religions, but minority sexual orientations.
6.) The California Supreme Court heard hours of rational argument and evidence. They listened to both sides, both pro-gay marriage and anti gay marriage. The anti gay-marriage people were asked over and over to give a compelling argument that would show that gay marriage somehow injures anyone or injures marriage as we know it. They could not come up with a compelling argument, and many of them were given the opportunity to do so. All we heard was their prejudices and their unfounded homophobia.
7.) Thomas Jefferson, the principle author of the Constitution, stated: "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others." Gay marriage between two consenting adults was not proven to be any more harmful or injurious to any other person than heterosexual marriage.
8.) *One* of the causes of divorce is cheating, often listed as irreconcilable difference, according to a divorce attorney I know, "to save the couple from public embarrassment". With nearly a 50% divorce rate among "Christians" surely "faith" in their invisible god is not *always* stronger than the immediate need for gratification and/or health considerations.
9.) The cheating and divorces continue decade after decade, no matter how many prayers have been uttered by preachers and priests, family and friends, to keep the blessed couples together.
Studies done by Christian organizations found that the divorce rate is actually higher among Christian Fundamentalist than it is among atheist, and divorce rates are higher in the MidSouth, where NONheterosexuals are relatively closeted than divorce rates in larger where NONheterosexuality is more accepted. I'm not drawing a correlation here, but it does support the fact that HONheterosexual marriage would certainly not harm heterosexual marriage.
10.) Self-proclaimed "Christians" such as Bill O'Reilly used misleading and irrational fear-mongering by stating gay marriage will lead to polygamy and people marrying animals." It hasn't in five countries where it's legal, nor in Massachusetts. Imagine that, using feat-bating instead of facts to limit freedom and equality - Bill O'Reilly's hypocrisy is too often the rule rather than the exception when it comes to gay bashing on religious grounds. O'Reilly was also among those Christians "baring false witness" that if we allow South Vietnam to fall to the communist, the rest of Asia would also. One act does not necessarily have to follow another, unrelated act, and in fact, often does not.
Bill O'Reilly is in no position to claim that law-abiding NONheterosexuals have a right to be themselves equal on a par with heterosexuals. But O'Reilly is no typical heterrosexual, for his hypocritical fantasies went too far and devolved into sexual harassment. For reference, search for "Andrea Mackris".
O'Reilly, while MARRIED, called Andrea Mackris several times making lewd and perverted phone calls. She sued. He stated on the air that he "would fight it to the end". A while later, he was told by Mackris' attorney that they had tape of his sexual phone calls.
O'Reilly then announced on the air that night that he has settled out of court and "will never talk about it again." Hardly a "fight to the end" and he actually settled for $10 million, which is hardly the act of an innocent man. Unfortunately, Bill O'Reilly has a long history of actually believing his misguided notions about our freedoms and what two consenting adults do in bed.
O'Reilly once stated that he would never let his son be around a gay parade because he wouldn't want him to see transsexuals. That's a strange way to teach tolerance of diversity and the realities of the world - that we're all different in one way or another, and often in many ways.
That wisdom and tolerance continues to be lost on Bill O'Reilly, who really expects NONheterosexuals to not "act" or "behave as themselves. This includes a significant percentage of the world's population as they are found in every country and every culture, including some of the oldest cultures on earth. While O'Reilly has a right to be closed minded and "disgusted" by two people of the same gender who love each other, nobody told him to think about what two girls do beyond holding each other for a picture.
I would be disgusted by the thought of Bill O'Reilly having sex with anyone, but again, I don't have to think about it. Like many adults, I'm emotionally mature enough to control my thoughts and feelings. When O'Reilly gets angry, (which is often) he tends to blame his victims. Bill has even proudly boasted, that his father, a cop, freely used his baton when he got angry.
No wonder. O'Reilly has written a non-fiction book about a smeared journalist who exacts murderous revenge - it seems to be a fantasy of his. Same applies to any couple we may think about, two obese people, two grandparents, etc., I think of them as fellow human beings first...and second.....and third, I don't think about what they do in the privacy of their own bedroom.
That's a simple lesson of decency and democracy that simply doesn't occur to Bill O'Reilly and his ilk, John Gibson and thousands of others who subscribe to homophobic gay-bashing. Many of them "enjoy" watching Fox "news" and proudly boast that they are "conservative" all the while lying that Fox "news" is not "right wing". Fox so-called "news" where journalistic integrity comes in a far second place to propaganda. Fox "news" - unfair, imbalanced and unashamed.
The good news is that most people can learn and grow, and change their subscriptions when they finally realize that they've been reading the wrong magazines much of their lives.
Chris Aable at 9:52PM on May 15th 2008
17. take a moment and think about the hate and fear filled ideas that some of your are having. who really cares! no one is hurting you!
If you focus on your self and being successful in the world, you really would not care who's marring who.
People with money and power laugh because they can see the bull shit things most, sorry to say, white straight men bitch about.
let it go and spend that time you hate on others, making love and money!
CC at 9:57PM on May 15th 2008
18. Very nicely put CC and Chris Aable.
Friendster214 at 10:09PM on May 15th 2008
19. I'm not religious at all. Nevertheless, the culture appears in decline. There are no limits to human behavior or depravity. It can go anywhere without guidance or brakes.
W. B. Wilhite at 10:11PM on May 15th 2008
20. Okay, just for a little change in point of view. I'm a 16 year old normal girl that goes to a normal high school. I LOVE how people use the idea that children of gay parents arent accepted and will be "scarred for life." I know planty of gay/lesbian/bi people at my school and they are treated just the same. There are THOSE that like to think they're being harassed because of their sexual orientation but all that does is draw attention to them which in turn makes them feel even MORE singled out. honestly, as kids, we dont care. hey as long as you dont start hitting on me or anything we're fine. love is love and if you're lucky enough to experience it, then thats awesome for you. whether you're straight, or gay.
Samantha at 10:13PM on May 15th 2008
21. I cant even read some of the garbage on this page. I stopped reading after demons and this and that. GOD IS LOVE so get over it people. If at night I lay my BIG GIANT LESBIAN HEAD on my wifes chest and peacefully drift off to slumberland happy and full of love in my heart, why the hell does anyone care if SHE is a SHE and not some man. HOW STUPID. Get over it. IM GOING TO CALI TO GET HITCHED! WOOHOO!!!!! And none of you closeminded homophobes are going to stop me. Live your own life and stop being so worried about what WE, as in Gay America, are doing in our lives. GET A CLUE! Worry about what your doing and how your living before you even dare judge my life. Find love, and then tell me I cant love who I love... WOOHOO ROCK THE RAINBOW BABY!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE YOU LYNN! 3 YRS BABY! NOW WE CAN GO TO CALI AND GET IT ON PAPER LOVE! YOUR MINE!!!!!!!!
stephanie at 10:25PM on May 15th 2008
22. Marriage is not just for pro creation! My husband and I have been married for almost 30 years, and decided by our free will that we did not want any children. We have a fantastic marriage; we are one of the only couples we know our age that are married to their first spouse; many are on their second and sometimes third spouse! In the world we are living in, a lot of couples are thinking twice about having kids. A marriage that is only for pro creating is a sad one. When those kids leave the nest what will you have in common then? My husband and I met in high school and still very much in love years later. We did not need kids to "solidify" our marriage. Kudos to those that want kids, but to say marriage is for pro creation is idiotic and narrow minded.
linda at 10:45PM on May 15th 2008
23. Marriage is obviously rooted in reproductive biology, and there's no way around it. It is the long-term project of child rearing that creates the need for any life-long contract to be entered by adult sex partners. Remove children from the mix, and you have no logical reason for any life-long contract punishable by law.
The state's interest in marriage is this: reproductive couples are the machines that produce and educate the citizenry of which the state is comprised.
preteristvision at 10:45PM on May 15th 2008
24. Chris Aable is wrong. Thomas Jefferson was NOT the principal author of the Constitution. He was in Paris during the Constitutional Convention, and had nothing to do with writing it.
cliothecat at 10:54PM on May 15th 2008
25. "A marriage that is only for pro creating is a sad one."
Holy Cow. Did I just read that? Um...99.9% of all marriages of all human history have produced children. Moreover, it is the long-range project of nurturing children into adulthood that forms the basis for a life-long contractual partnership enforceable by law. So, a marriage that is not formed for the long-range project of children is senseless.
Of course you need kids to solidify a marriage. The entire concept of entering a contract that binds adults together for life is derived entirely from the life-long project of child rearing/family. Why else would adults legally bind to each other for life???
To speak of "marriage" apart from family and kids is idiotic, narrow minded, and entirely divorced from the real history of marriage.
preteristvision at 11:00PM on May 15th 2008
26. 25. cliothecat, You're a publlic Liar about both Chris Aable and the Constitution:
In 1776, the Second Continental Congress formed a committee, consisting of John Adams of Massachusetts, Benjamin Franklin of Pennsylvania, Thomas Jefferson of Virginia, Robert R. Livingston of New York, and Roger Sherman of Connecticut (the "Committee of Five"), to draft a suitable declaration to frame this resolution. The committee decided that Jefferson would write the draft, which he showed to Franklin and Adams. Prior to deciding on Jefferson, both Adams and Franklin turned down the offer, citing that if they wrote it people would read it with a biased eye. Franklin himself made at least 48 corrections, including changing the slogan "Life, Liberty and Property" to "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."[citation needed] Jefferson then produced another copy incorporating these changes, and the committee presented this copy to the Continental Congress on June 28, 1776.
Friendster214 at 11:08PM on May 15th 2008
27. #26 preteristvision, you commit the abomination of "baring" false witness over and over and insult everyone's intelligence, including your own.
There is NO WAY anyone can measure 99.9% of "marriages" throughout history ending up in producing children. I know of plenty of married couples who either cannot or will not have children.
Who exactly came up with 99.9% and how far back in "history" did they go and how many countries did they take this fantasy measurement of yours.
If if you were half correct, this is not a communist country where women should be baby factories for your sick beliefs.
Friendster214 at 11:12PM on May 15th 2008
28. Well for wrong or right, there seems to be alot of hate and anger being bandied around here in "Gods" name. As far as I know he still exists and doesnt seem to need a spokes person. People of God follow God's way. In many ways. Jeasus was a begger, he was rich in faith and grace.
Maybe some people should wait till God dies, and then send in their resume's.
Good luck California. You are going to need it. And I wish love and congradulations from Jenna Bush to anyone in california who wants to get married. I am sure in our collective hearts thats no too hard. Is it?
Kg
kevingerarrd at 11:18PM on May 15th 2008
29. Why did I think that people and their bibles would not appear on this blog? They are probably the same people who opposed interacial marriage. I do not understand what it is to be gay, but I do understand rights. I support any group who wishes to have rights. It's not like they are out to harm anyone, so why cannot people who want to have a life partner have that right? Hopefully other states will follow.
Peni at 11:18PM on May 15th 2008
30. "There are sexual demons that are associated with people being Gay. A lot of times scientist and others do argue that it is because of an overlapping of the X or Y chromosome with the gender. While those sexual demons spirits enter the mothers womb through witchcraft/ voodoo encounters, lack of prayer etc. yvette"
Jesus Fucking christ, you need to get back on your medication. Stat!
brandon at 11:29PM on May 15th 2008