Mo Rocca has appeared on a bunch of shows, including 'The Daily Show,' 'I Love the 80s,'...
Posted Jun 12th 2008 4:35AM by Dinesh D'Souza
Filed under: Science, Christianity, Atheism
When Richard Dawkins published The God Delusion, philosopher Michael Ruse was quoted as saying that the book "makes me embarrassed to be an atheist." What especially galls
I've been reading
But doesn't evolution contradict a literal reading of the first chapter of Genesis? Yes, but
By contrast,
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The Sound of a Smoke-Free Barack...
Mo Rocca appears on a bunch of shows, including CBS News Sunday Morning (with the indescribably wonderful Charles Osgood), The Tonight Show on NBC, and NPR's Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! He's a sometime judge on Iron Chef and was featured on Telemundo's Amore Descarado. Last year he starred on Broadway in the 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee. His expose "All the President's Pets" was published by Crown in 2004.
Reader Comments ( Page 4 of 115)
46. No. Darwinianism is incompatible with the silly and whacked ideas of god.
Science is about using the scientific method to separate wishful thinking from facts and laws of Nature. Science is about finding out what is real and what is not.
Many christian admit that their god is immaterial. That itself is proof that their god is not real.
Christian beliefs and faith has been slammed to the mat by science over and over again. It's just that your faith lets you believe any nonsense crap as if it's real. Believers and faith heads simply have no reality discrimination in your brains.
So no, science is not compatible with religion. Darwin's theory, being a scientifically proven hypothesis with loads of evidence is of course incompatible with any faith based system.
While some factions of christianity might embrace science and evolution (a wise move to remain progressive) others do not. It matters not since all factions of cristinanity peddle bunk crap for beliefs via their holier than thou notion of loyalty to the mythical god through faith.
Faith is for those who can't handle the truths obtainable via the scientific method. Faith is for the weak minded fools. Faith is for those who fear political reprisals if they denounced faith or god. Faith is for fools.
Peter at 2:27PM on Jun 12th 2008
47. EVOLUTION IN ACTION PROVES CREATIONISM FALSE!!!
"A major evolutionary innovation has unfurled right in front of researchers' eyes. It's the first time evolution has been caught in the act of making such a rare and complex new trait. And because the species in question is a bacterium, scientists have been able to replay history to show how this evolutionary novelty grew from the accumulation of unpredictable, chance events."
"Lenski's experiment is also yet another poke in the eye for anti-evolutionists, notes Jerry Coyne, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Chicago. "The thing I like most is it says you can get these complex traits evolving by a combination of unlikely events," he says. "That's just what creationists say can't happen."
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/dn14094-bacteria-make-major-evolutionary-s
Peter at 2:30PM on Jun 12th 2008
48. "If the creation account is not literal, then it could be argued that it's "wrong""
We don't usually refer to things that aren't literal as 'wrong'. If I say "I could eat a horse", nobody is going to correct me and say "wrong!", except maybe my 5 year old. That said, obviously some people (though not all as DD points out) did take these stories literally for many thousands of years. If someone were to claim (as Ken Ham did when he came to our church awhile back) that these stories are literally true and you aren't a believer unless you accept that, then I would say they are wrong.
As for the rest of it, that's an all day conversation. But bottom line that's why I'm only concerned with the core simplicity of Christianity and try not to get into the business you see on here at times about who is a true Christian.
bigTuna at 2:36PM on Jun 12th 2008
49. What does genesis have to do with christianity anyways? The biggest problem with christians is that they ignore christianity. namely, to be a "christian" you only need to proclaim membership on the jesus team.
i don't think jesus actually believed in churches, reverends, priests, or that he gave two cents about genesis or creation.
he had only one lesson which was give up everything to live your life with love and compassion for others. period. or basically, live your life like he did.
so, i think if you are somewhere on the path to living your life like christ did, then you are a christian. i think that even christ would admit that whether or not you accept him as your personal savior is irrelevant.
even amongst "christians" who still believe that old bible stories are history?
do people still believe that the earth was created in six days 4 thousand years ago? do people belive that old bible figures lived to be hundreds of years old? do people believe that noah made a boat and the world was flooded? or that moses parted the red sea? or that jesus raised lazarus from the dead?
we know that all these things are impossible. and they certainly have nothing to do with being a true christian. i don't know what you call these folks. they are akin to people who believe in UFOs. but if you can believe this, you can believe the creation stories of the navajo, or the aztecs, or the hindus, or the dogon, etc.
i think these stories only serve to make people feel like they are part of the "chosen ones". a group that has been singled out by god amongst the all the people in the world.
so, maybe instead of "christians" d'souza should use the term, "chosen people".
can christians believe in evolution? sure, but they wouldn't really have time to care. a true christian would be working to help his fellow man, spread love and compassion, and generally make the world a better place. he wouldn't worry about heaven or hell because he'd find his heaven here and now by living with compassion.
a 'chosen person' probably wouldn't believe in evolution because it can be perceived as negating his justification for being a chosen person.
erik at 2:45PM on Jun 12th 2008
50. By the way Evolution is not about chance and randomness - that is a tiny part of it.
Evolution is an non-aware non-conscious non-agent non-intelligent process that occurs in the universe. It's not even a cohesive process. Evolution is simply our way of describing a number of changes that occur over time. Sure there is some change and some random mutations caused by say radiation for example that could lead to new developments in the genetic code of an individual. But if that individual is then eaten or killed before reproducing natural selection will have taken place.
Natural selection is simply our name for living things dying or not dying, passing on their genes or not. While there might be some chance in which individuals die and which live it's not really a part of natural selection at heart so your description of evolution isn't accurate. Sure death can be random or seem to be random. Maybe the predator was actually stalking the unfortunate prey that had the new gene or maybe it was just a chance encounter and an opportunity for a tiny snack taken.
To think that Natural Selection is about change and randomness is to insult your ancestors. They worked really hard to survive and give birth to your recent parents, grand parents, great grand parents... etc... Without their efforts to survive and improve their changes of being Naturally Selected TO LIVE they wouldn't have been able to evolve into you and me. So please have some respect for your common ancestors.
It has been PROVEN that the universe is a kind of computational system. I don't know if you knew that but it has been conclusively proven. (Reference: A New Kind of Science by Stephen Wolfram). As such evolution is simply the natural unguided process occurring relying upon the laws of the universe. Nothing magic. No guiding hand. No faith.
Now to humans who evolved faith and belief for reasons of survival. If you didn't believe that the strongest man in the tribe was the leader you'd likely end up dead. If you didn't follow the rules - no matter how whacked in the head - you'd end up dead. If you didn't obey the uneducated dictates of the shaman you'd end up dead or banished. Belief and faith are simply a tool used by living organisms to create a model of the world in order to make sense of it and to maximize survival in an uncertain world.
Now that we've evolved to the point where we are advanced tool users with a highly developed linguistic capability our belief and faith is a serious challenge to survival. Faith and belief in the not possible could end up destroying all life on this planet with wars and nuclear bombs.
Christianity is about belief through faith in that which they claim can't be proven. This is completely at odds with science let alone the scientific theory of Evolution.
Evolve to the next level by eliminating belief and faith in the immaterial from your life. The immaterial (god) is immaterial to a good and successful life. In fact having any faith in immaterial nonsense can be a hindrance to advancing knowledge forward (for many reasons).
Peter at 2:54PM on Jun 12th 2008
51. OOPS. Correcting the above post.
To think that Natural Selection is about CHANCE and randomness is to insult your ancestors.
Peter at 2:56PM on Jun 12th 2008
52. You cant insult my ancestors, they were monkeys and would throw poop at you!!!!
CaptainCack at 3:04PM on Jun 12th 2008
53. Actually CaptainCack you ancestors were APES, your cousins were monkeys. Humans throw poop as well, you'd know that if you have ever dealt with babies and small kids, or bible thumpers.
Peter at 3:53PM on Jun 12th 2008
54. ATHEIST
How do you know when Dinesh is LYING?
He limits your choices, and says it must be either A or B.
example:
DINESH: But doesn't evolution contradict a literal reading of the first chapter of Genesis? Yes, but Ruse points out that there are only two groups of people who insist on reading Genesis in a close-mindedly literal way. (END)
This is how STUPID people LIE. And think, I guess.
I read Genesis in a literal way... because I don't want to be fooled.
dinesh is a friggin' idiot.
If you want to decide if a book is CREDIBLE, first, you read it literally. Duh.
Rule #1:
"If a story has a DEMONIC SPIRIT identifying your hero as The Holy One of God, the story is FICTION."
Genesis... is fiction.
Dimwit Dinesh thinks that a "literal" reading is a sign of little minds?????? Jeez.... get this guy OFF the blog page. He's a fool.
William Hays at 3:54PM on Jun 12th 2008
55. ATHEIST
Christianity teaches you to be STUPID.
Christianity doesn't want you to THINK.
Example:
Reply to: 48. What does genesis have to do with christianity anyways?
_______________
That's kind of an interesting question.
A Bible.... has the Old and New Testaments published in a package. So you might think the Old Testament is PART of Christianity.
Certainly the Gospels quote verses from the Old Testament to try to prove that Jesus fulfilled them.
Reply to: i don't think jesus actually believed in churches, reverends, priests, or that he gave two cents about genesis or creation.
That's the STUPID part.
you don't know. You're posting an OPINION that is complete NONSENSE.
QUIT doing that. If you don't have a basis, don't just post the last thought that came into your brain.
Jesus... was (probably) arrested for making a drunken protest against Roman influence at the Temple of Jerusalem. Which makes him a Jew.
You don't know any more than that.
William Hays at 4:00PM on Jun 12th 2008
56. "Apes are the members of the Hominoidea superfamily of primates, which includes humans. Under the current classification system there are two families of hominoids:"
"* the family Hylobatidae consists of 4 genera and 13 species of gibbons, including the Lar Gibbon and the Siamang, collectively known as the "lesser apes"
"* the family Hominidae consisting of orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans, collectively known as the great apes."
"Chimpanzees, gorillas, humans and orangutans are all ... closely related to one another.... Current evidence implies that humans share a common, extinct, ancestor with the chimpanzee line, from which we separated more recently than the gorilla line."
WikiPedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape
Peter at 4:06PM on Jun 12th 2008
57. any good christian with common sense would see it like this: God created the world in 6 days and on the 7th, He rested. but if a day is like a 1,000 years in the eyes of the Lord, then could His creating everything had taken as long as science has said it has? methinks so. the science proves it. i look at science this way: it's a simple way of explaining how God did what He did. and for that, we should praise Him! HURRAH! :)
Devynn at 6:10PM on Jun 12th 2008
58. I have a better question...
Who cares?
Individuals believe all kinds of things which can be hypocritical, contradictory, fickle, and irrational. Some people believe in God. Some people believe in Christ. Some people believe in little green men swooping in to carve up cows.
If some one wants to believe in Christ and thinks evolution is God playing Spore... heck, have fun with that. I couldn't care less. Go on, enjoy your belief, and keep it off my lawn. If you believe that God with "Voila!" and everything poofed into existance... have fun with that. I couldn't care less. Keep the noise down.
I don't care about belief. There are too many and most of them are too annoying for me to bother with. You believe floride in the water is a government conspiracy. Have fun. You believe that immunizations caused your kid to develop autism? Have fun. I am not the belief police. Dawkins believes you can't believe in christ and evolution? Have fun with that. Dinesh believe you can believe in christ and evolution. Have fun with that.
I. Don't. Care.
So that I do care about... am curious about... is why are you folks all up in arms about this?
Somber at 4:32PM on Jun 12th 2008
59. Peter: So no, science is not compatible with religion.
PV: Modern science was developed by Christian religionists: Roger Bacon, René Descartes, Johannes Kepler, Francis Bacon, Galileo, Pascal, Louis Pasteur, Robert Boyle, Carolus Linnaeus, Isaac Newton, Joseph Priestley, Gregor Mendel, Georges Lemaitre, Francis Collins.
Peter: Science is about using the scientific method to separate wishful thinking from facts and laws of Nature.
PV: The scientific method was developed by Christian religionists Francis Bacon and René Descartes. The concept of "laws of nature" was Bacon was largely popularized by Roger Bacon.
Peter: Their god is immaterial. That itself is proof that their god is not real.
PV: Not if other dimensions exist, and not if matter can't create itself out of nothing. The Standard Model of particle physics is both self-refuting and unable to posit what material thing caused the Big Bang, or where that material thing came from, or where that material thing came from, ad infinitum.
Peter: So no, science is not compatible with religion. Darwin's theory...
PV: Many of Darwin's ideas are still in the realm of unproven theory, and Darwin was a Theist anyway.
Peter: Faith is for fools.
PV: Here are some of those "fools" once again: Roger Bacon, René Descartes, Johannes Kepler, Francis Bacon, Galileo, Pascal, Louis Pasteur, Robert Boyle, Carolus Linnaeus, Isaac Newton, Joseph Priestley, Gregor Mendel, Georges Lemaitre, Francis Collins.
preteristvision at 4:34PM on Jun 12th 2008
60. I care about the whacked out beliefs of faith freaks WHEN those beliefs impact my life Somber. In fact the whacked out christian beliefs - in the roman catholic and fundamentalist creationist forms - have destroyed my birth family tearing it apart. The beliefs are inherently divisive. They are insidious. There is more to say about this but that's it for now.
Peter at 4:35PM on Jun 12th 2008