The recent Pew Forum study on religion, widely reported in the media, shows that the vast majority of Americans remains religious: 92 percent believe in God. This percentage has remained relatively stable for more than half a century.
Atheists remain a tiny proportion of the population with some interesting anomalies: 21 percent of self-identified atheists say they believe in God, with nearly 10 percent of them "absolutely sure" of it. What this means is that 21 percent of self-described atheists are highly confused and 10 percent are certified nut-cases.
What got the most attention, however, was Pew's discovery that a majority of religious Americans believe that other religions make valid claims about God and can lead to heaven. Around 80 percent of Catholics, Protestants and Jews, as well as 55 percent of Muslims, reject the idea that their religion is the only way.
These findings, however, hardly suggest that pluralism has overtaken truth as the defining feature of American religion. First of all, Christianity is the only religion to hold another religion to be wholly true. That religion is Judaism. Second, Catholics and Protestants have become increasingly convinced that it is fidelity to creedal Christianity--and not the denominational differences of past centuries--that is decisive for salvation. Finally many people don't realize that just as Christianity sees itself as succeeding and incorporating Judaism, so Islam sees itself as coming after and incorporating both Judaism and Christianity. Consequently I'm not surprised that most Muslims view Jews and Christians as fellow monotheists rather than hell-bound infidels.
Soon my Orange County debate with atheist Christopher Hitchens and Jewish radio host Dennis Prager will be up on the web and I'll link to it. The debate, amusingly billed as a Christian-Atheist-Jewish showdown, had some fiery and fascinating exchanges. At one point Hitchens sought to alienate me from the Jews in the audience by asking me if good and decent Jews can go to heaven. I said I believe they can. This is no denial of the central Christian proposition that Christ is the way to salvation. The Bible clearly specifies that there is salvation through Christ for his followers.
But Scripture and Christian teaching leave open the question of what happens to virtuous non-Christians who either lived before Christ or who have not had a chance to accept him. My hope and belief is that God's mercy can extend to them also, as it did to Moses and Abraham and the God-fearing Jews of the Old Testament. If so, they too would be saved through Christ's sacrifice on the cross, even if they did not consciously and explicitly embrace that sacrifice. As for atheists who reject God and affirm with Hitchens that they want nothing to do with heaven, we can be reasonably confident that God will respect their free will and reluctantly grant their wish.
There are two kinds of pluralism: the kind that holds that truth does not matter, and the kind that holds that truth matters greatly but as flawed human beings our reason and experience gives us only limited access to the truth. The first kind of pluralism is deadly for religion, and is typically embraced by flaccid people who are too lazy to think or who have been seduced by postmodernist flimflam. The second kind of pluralism is the shared ground of debate between intelligent believers and unbelievers. The stakes could not be higher.
Reader Comments ( Page 5 of 69)
61. HONESTY ISSUE:
Will the real John McCain please stand up. For people that want to meet the real john McCain, please read these two articles: Corruption, Flip-Flop and Lies
http://www.realchange.org/mccain.htm
http://www.nationalreview.com/contributors/levin040501.shtml
Now that's the McCain, the reformer we know.
AGE ISSUE:
Data just released show America is behind most industrialized nations when it comes to life expectancy. That is why we need universal healthcare like Obama is advocating. Just food for thought:
- For average white American male, life expectancy is 72 years and John McCain is already 72 years old, so he might kick the bucket any time now
- For average black American male, the life expectancy is 70 years and Barack Obama is only 46 years old.
iynaroc02 at 2:43PM on Jun 25th 2008
62. Dinesh:
India probably has more different religious sects and different types of believers than any other country in the world. I find it strange that someone of your ethnic origins has the arrogance to stand upon his soapbox and support his religion (one that you came to by CHOICE, not birth) while acting as if others are less pure. Dinesh, with every blog of yours that I read, the less credible you become. Pretty soon, no one will be able to believe in anything you write. This leads me to believe that everyone will eventually become athiests when it comes to YOU!
jdsimps@aol.com at 2:53PM on Jun 25th 2008
63. This is only marginally on topic. Last night I heard James Dobson try to lay into Obama for a speech he gave two years ago. The thrust was that he, Obama, did not rely on scripture to influence lawmaking decisions, and he quoted Leviticus and the sermon on the mount to make his points. Two years ago.
Dobson on the other hand was granted a television camera. His complaint was that Obama did not follow 'traditional understanding' of the meaning of the scriptures.
'tradional understanding'? Dobson's traditions and Dobson's understanding. He referred to Obama's position re religion and the constitution as being 'fruitcake'.
Father Dobson should probably weigh the use of the term 'fruitcake' a little more heavily.
Clif Kuplen at 2:47PM on Jun 25th 2008
64. Christianty: a religion based on living your entire life for your death. CaptainCack
Actually Captain, the aim of salvation in the Chrisitian schema is not about going to heaven when you die. Salvation in the Christian schema is about a renewed earth of justice and peace. Using the poetry of the Hebrew scriptures, salvation will be a time when the lion lays down with the lamb and the implements of war are converted to implements of peace.
The WAY of Jesus is the way of self giving love; it's the way of forgiveness, of peace, of justice, of hospitality to strangers and welcome to the marginalized and excluded. That WAY is the only way of salvation for our world.
There are a good many Christians, Jews, Muslims and Atheists who believe in that WAY.
randy at 2:47PM on Jun 25th 2008
65. salvation will be a time when the lion lays down with the lamb
xxx
That part's easy. At the end of their lives they lay down and die.
Salvation at last.
Clif Kuplen at 2:53PM on Jun 25th 2008
66.
Randy, so "There are a good many Christians, Jews, Muslims and Atheists who believe in that WAY".
Apparently non-christians have similar values, which is not predicated on christ, nor is it necessary to attribute these values to christ.
JefFlyingV at 2:55PM on Jun 25th 2008
67. One would have to assume that Dinesh D'Souza gives all his income - except for the bare minimum needed to live - to the poor. Wasn't it D'Souza's lord who said something to the effect that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven?
Paul Halbach at 2:56PM on Jun 25th 2008
68. Ryan Anderson: Is your position here that simply not believing in God (or Jesus) is "doing bad"?
PV: Christianity teaches that God's redemption/salvation of humanity is concerned with restoring humans to right moral action and right understanding. The Law, the prophets, and Christ himself all were concerned with turning people away from their evil desires and acts and reforming them towards love and good deeds prescribed by the natural moral law. Second, this "redemption" can potentially take place in a person's life *even if they have never heard of Christ,* since God has made the mechanisms for this restoration of conscience broadly available. A person who lives virtuously by God's standards is redeemed by God, even though he doesn't have any education about Christ or Moses or any other prophet.
preteristvision at 2:57PM on Jun 25th 2008
69. Clif, I saw that story, and it isn't surprising to paint Obama as being one of those evil false christians.
JefFlyingV at 2:58PM on Jun 25th 2008
70. Is Christianity the only way?
It is the only way to be a Christian, that must be a given.
Are other folks getting to Heaven?
There's no Heaven.
D'Souza says, "21 percent of self-identified atheists say they believe in God, with nearly 10 percent of them "absolutely sure" of it."
Well, I'd imagine that if 8% of the population claim agnosticism/atheism, atheism is probably claimed by 2-3% of the total population and you say that only 10% of THOSE, that is 0.2% of self-proclaimed atheists are really anti-theists.
Most of those probably misrepresented themselves and are probably anti-religionists and some might even believe themselves to be possessed by Satan.
Perhaps they didn't have that all important question on the survey..
"Do you imagine that my mother sucks cocks in Hell?"
It would be interesting to see how many, out of the total population(including Christians) would answer 'yes' to that one!
not-pboyfloyd at 3:00PM on Jun 25th 2008
71. In the New Testament scriptures, "believing in Jesus" actually equates to doing what he said and taught, which involves a wide range of things. The Pope is merely examining the whole range of things that must be followed, whereas you are reducing Christianity to some kind of singular mental exercise.
I'm afraid it's you who are reducing christianity to what you want it to be. If what you are saying is true, all the christians who back the death penalty are doomed. "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Jesus' view on execution seem to be pretty straightforward, yet you "interpret" that, I don't know how, but most of you back it. I don't care what your interpretation is, Jesus says one thing, and you turn it around to mean whatever you want.
The extremists who flew airplanes into buildings did it, the godly christians who brought you the inquisition did it, the people who tied humans to stakes and torched them did it, and your pope did it.
I don't give a rat's ass how long of a document your interpretation is, it isn't what Jesus said.
Which would be the final word, only both books are written so badly, that you can make it prove anything you want.
If god is so ultra intelligent, why didn't he write his book in a manner where it didn't need to be "interpreted?"
Because there isn't a god, and if the writers didn't leave themselves "wiggling room," people like us would have ripped them to shreds.
ex-christian at 3:03PM on Jun 25th 2008
72. Hello X-Xian,
Read the document before you disagree with it:
Dominus Iesus
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html
It's obvious that you don't understand what you're talking about. Read the document once through, as it lays out its points in a methodical reasoned manner. After all, you're the one who brought up the document. You ought to at least read it and understand what it claims before you go misrepresenting it.
preteristvision at 3:17PM on Jun 25th 2008
73. PV: since you didn't answer my question, I'll ask again, is your position here that simply not believing in God (or Jesus) is "doing bad"?
Also, you state that people can be "saved" by works if they've not heard of Jesus. God has a mechanism in place for that eventuality you say. However, I am to assume that mechanism is no longer available once the "noble savage" hears about Jesus? Seems like that model assume that those delivering the "good word" will always state a compelling case.
As an example, it's safe to assume that many Aztec would have been pretty disgusted with the "Christian Message" after Cortez "delivered it". Yet they "heard" the message, and in your goofy world are accountable to it.
Makes less than no sense.
Ryan Anderson at 3:09PM on Jun 25th 2008
74. Apparently non christians have similar values, which is not predicated on christ, nor is it necessary to attribute these values to christ.
JefFying V
Yes Jeff, that's my position. I don't care what a person calls themselves, the important thing is to hold fast to the WAY of self giving love.
randy at 3:17PM on Jun 25th 2008
75. SOMBER: Is Jeffery Dahlmer in heaven? Yes, he was a murderer. Yes, he was a homosexual. Yes, he was a cannibal, and though I don't think the bible forbids it I'm pretty sure it should. But he was a christian and on his execution confessed his sins and recieved last rights. So, according to the rules of christianity, he must be in heaven because no sin, great or small, is too large to be forgiven by faith in Jesus?
PV: God's forgiveness is great, but it's not about free passes. Let's assume that Dahmer was sane while he acted and later had serious contrition for his evil. (Let's say that his own acts and impulses truly sickened him to the point of his coming to hate those acts and despise himself for having done them.) God would show mercy on him for having acknowledged that he had been complicit in evil and for resolving to make reparations any way possible. And, whenever the necessary reparations were complete, Dahmer would then (and only then) enter God's Heaven.
SOMBER: But according to the rules of christianity as set forth in the bible, it doesn't matter how good you are. You can be an absolute saint and if you're not a christian you go to hell.
PV: That's not what historical Christianity maintains. Moral and immoral actions do of course matter and factor in.
preteristvision at 3:18PM on Jun 25th 2008