Speaking on background, a source in the Obama campaign admitted to a certain frustration with the current narrative of their candidate "moving to the center" on issues where the Illinois Democrat has always staked out moderate ground. When talking about a gradual pullout from Iraq during the primary season, for example, Obama took some abuse from the "immediate withdrawal" crowd for his repeated mantra that "we should be just as careful getting out" of Iraq as we were "careless getting in." (And indeed, as represented by the "Responsible Plan" website, that kind of talk is firmly in the mainstream of activist anti-Iraq war sentiment anyway.) In the aftermath of Obama's FISA repositioning, the Obama campaign's fear, however, is that every subsequent moderate noise will be interpreted as a cynical centrist tack.
I'm worried this sounds like a campaign floating the idea that they might move their position on Iraq. They seem to be trying to prepare the ground that Obama has always been for gradual withdrawal from Iraq. Here's the thing, almost no one is for immediate withdrawal. That's a straw man argument. So, why are they now bringing up this gradual withdrawal point? I think bending on his 16 month timeline for withdrawal during the general election campaign is a terrible idea. I explain why below:
There is a difference between moving to the center and moving to the right. There is a difference between making tough choices about Iraq once you get into office and flip-flopping in the middle of the campaign. There is a difference between being moderate and being weak. Changing your position on such a central issue would be taken as a tremendous sign of weakness. They better not even be thinking about it.
Obama didn't come this far by running a traditional campaign. Why would you switch now and go back to running the same old conventional losing campaign that Democrats have run for so long? Appeasing the right brings you no political friends. It just brings you justified scorn from both sides. Go with what brought you here, not some cheap old political tricks.
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Reader Comments ( Page 3 of 6)
31. Mac is so old,Sunny has him confused
with his father.
BOB JOHNSON at 4:17PM on Jul 2nd 2008
32. The article was about Obama flip flopping. Why did you write a whole page about McCain?
xxx
Because he flip flops and Obama doesn't.
Why let an article rebadge reality? That's what Rove did because he wasn't called to task on every occasion. Not this time.
xxxxx
Everyone is getting really tired of the "well he did it too"
xxxx
Read my last post.
I gave you a gigantic albeit truncated flipflops that Obama DOESN'T DO!!
I'm tired of republicans putting up some vacillating weasel like bush and busher who make a parody of leadership and responsibility while they loot the treasury and borrow trillions from the communists and muslims.
You can stick your flipflop right alongside the terrorist rev hussein babymama fist jabs as more of the anklebiting that about 80% of us are voting AGAINST. You?
xxx
I see now how he is just like any other politican, and is just power hungry.
xxxx
more republicanism. how did you put it, 'well, he did it too'.
Smells different when it's incoming, I suppose, but that's a talking point. Obama has clean hands Mcsame does not.
xxxxxxxxxxx
So why don't you stop the long repeated demagoguery and focus on the outcome of this election.
xxxxxxxx
Demagoguery is rabble rousing. Lying would be demagogury, like saying mccain was on the side of the GI bill, but telling the truth is a little different. It's purpose is to QUELL demagoguery.
The only strategy the republicans are likely to have is rabble rousing or dissembly. They certainly can't run on their record.
The fact is that any politician is obliged to run a political campaign.
The Obama campaign is among the best I've seen in my lifetime, and it is fulfilling prophecies I made here last year that if Obama beat Clinton in the primaries (I couldn't predict that), that negative campaigning against Obama would have a positive effect on his campaign and the democrats in general.
Now, a segue to the money question: Do you know what a meme is?
That's part of the reason I'm here. Another is to get a better assessment of the type of affective glitch that makes a person persistently vote against his own best interest and pay through the nose for it with the end in mind of finding some remedy for this.
I have some answers. Some I suspected, some are a little surprising.
son, if you see anything resembling whining, it's going to come from the other side in the form of something like, 'why don't you defend obama for flip flopping instead of attacking mccain?'.
I'm damned firm in what I stand for and say and why I say it and I condemn fascism as a traitorous philosophy.
And I condemn John Mccain for flipflopping into line with the hard line right wingers who perpetrate fascist tactics and philosophy.
If republicans don't want heat, the dining room's that way.
Now, where can I read you admonishing republican posters?
If I can't you're on a side and pretending you're not, a cute trick of demagogues, an imaginary guy named Judas and swift boaters.
Clif Kuplen at 4:32PM on Jul 2nd 2008
33. Uncle - You are putting words in my mouth. I did not say "our troops" are self centered louts. I said one particular vet fit that description. And it's true. Kerry's war-hero stories are all very fishy, they're refuted by many witnesses, not all of whom are Republicans.
It is you, my friend, impugning our military by believing John Kerry, and disbelieving hundreds of vets by doing so. Kerry is a man whose prevarications are almost on a par with Clinton. You have to be rather hyper-partisan to defend him because he's not an honorable guy.
How many other vets video-tape themselves back in Viet Nam or run around telling others they're heroes? True heroes don't have to tell people how important they are. Self-important louts like Kerry have to continually announce it.
As for Obama, his inclinations toward Marxist "liberation theology" are substantial. And he was rated the most liberal Senator in Congress. This man is no moderate.
Dave at 4:45PM on Jul 2nd 2008
34. Who rated Obama as the most liberal man in Congress? Is it the same people who issue, "Pinnochio's?"
Kerry was an idiot for letting the Swiftboaters portray the hero for the coward while letting the republitards portray the deserter as some sort of hero.
Why didn't the media ask Governor bush the simple question; "Governor bush, why did you choose to enlist in the "Champaign Division" of the Texas Air National Guard, rather than fight in the Vietnam war that you supported?"
Captain Negative at 4:54PM on Jul 2nd 2008
35. On the other hand, can anyone imagine being a poor grunt in Vietnam and finding out that your new Lieutenant was a panty-waist, punk-ass, shave-tail rich-kid, like george bush?
Maybe it's better that george bush spent his "military service" being drunk, stoned on cocaine, impregnating young women, paying for abortions and being a general fuck-up.
Captain Negative at 5:02PM on Jul 2nd 2008
36. Botts
" And both instances, you are lying.
My Father was a Vet"
Well, you are a liar, your father was never in Vietnam. OK, now we are past the liar stuff, lets go on
It is a matter of opinion what was the Swift boats main bitch was with Kerry, mine is that of the two, Kerry before Congress was the major one.
Kerry's attacking US Troops and saying the committed autrocities was a blanket condemnation. Anyone who was in Vietnam was thus part of his condemnation.
Kerry also spoke out against the Vietnam and why he was against it.It was a civil war. I agree it was a civil war and that Democrat Presidents got the USA invited in, one we should have not been involved in, and Swift Boat people really had no problem with Kerry saying that.
You have alot of friends your fathers age who served in Vietnam?????
"and my many relatives and friends that honorably served"
Do you lie about that to??????????????
robert okane at 5:44PM on Jul 2nd 2008
37. Uncle Beat Your Meat
You Liberal Fascist Wingnuts are all the same.You hate hte men who have the balls to go into the military.
Uncle beat your Meat-Left Wingnuts are the one's who pissed on US Trooping returning home from Vietnam. American serviceman could not wear their uniforms when at home because they would be called baby killers by the Left Wingnuts. The Serviceman would be pounced upon and physically beat up by gangs of Left Wingnuts. By gangs, more than one because the Left Wingnuts are such cowards, they can only gang up in a fight.
Uncle Beat Your Meat-Kerry lied to Congress for a bunch of proven liars in his "Vietnam Vets for Against the War" organization for which he was spokesman for. Later on all these cowards of that organization never spoke up and defended Kerry because they were uch liars and cowards.
Uncle Beat Your Meat-And it was Democrats Presidents Kennedy and Johnson's War in which 52000 real men died.
robert okane at 5:43PM on Jul 2nd 2008
38. Gee Dave,
Your right, I did put words in your mouth but why do I get the impression that those words fit your tongue like a pair of well-worn shoes on Lush Rimjob’s feet?
No factual proof that Obama is a marxist?
Why am I not surprised?
No comments about taxpayer funded corporate welfare and bailouts?
Why am I not surprised?
No response to my assertion that the Swift Douche Bags for Distortion were essentially assembled by Karl Rove?
Why am I not surprised?
No response to fact that it was the right wing that created this tactic of getting main stream groups and individuals to question the validity of someone’s military record?
Why am I not surprised?
No response that McCain himself has said in the past that a military record does not neceesarily deem one fit for foreign office?
Why am I not surprised?
No going against the right slanted grain by defending Clark’s military service?
Why am I not surprised?
Swift boat skipper: Kerry critics wrong
Tribune editor breaks long silence on Kerry record; fought in disputed battle
By Tim Jones, Tribune national correspondent. Tribune staff reporter Rick Pearson contributed to this report from Crawford, Texas August 22, 2004
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0408220343aug22,1,3887035.story
Uncle Meat at 6:06PM on Jul 2nd 2008
39. I am laughing at you Robert Opain in the ass.
First of all I think I might actually change my moniker to Uncle Beat Your Meat. Maybe if more of you right-wing “nuts” beat your meat more often this country might not be in the shape it’s in.
Do you find the idea of beating ones meat shameful? That’s very revealing.
Both my father and an older cousin fought in Vietnam, If you choose not to believe that I can understand that because it rocks your moronically simplistic view of the world. Again Neocons just don’t do nuance.
I have not bashed McCain’s military service, I have not bashed any republican’s military service you asshole on the other hand have trashed both Clark’s and Kerry’s military service so I will play your childish game and say that it is YOU WHO HATES MILITARY PEOPLE. And if you happen to be a military person yourself I like you will choose to disregard that and claim that YOU ARE A SELF HATING MILITARY MAN.
PS.
I was actually beating my meat when I wrote this and damn it felt good.
Uncle Meat at 6:06PM on Jul 2nd 2008
40. And it's true. Kerry's war-hero stories are all very fishy, they're refuted by many witnesses, not all of whom are Republicans.
xxx
That's republicanist propaganda and you are a liar. end of story.
Clif Kuplen at 6:12PM on Jul 2nd 2008
41. Kerry's attacking US Troops and saying the committed autrocities was a blanket condemnation.
xxx
And one that's true. I've seen more than a little evidence of this, including the body parts mailed back to the U.S. by American soldiers. Don't doubt one goddam word of it. There were many many my lai's and lots of rusty calley's.
Clif Kuplen at 6:15PM on Jul 2nd 2008
42. PS Uncle Meat all vets in Swift Boat Vets group who said they were Vets, were actually Vets.
xxx
they were also actually liars according to John mcsame. None of them knew or had even seen Kerry and none earned their medals according to mccain.
Clif Kuplen at 6:18PM on Jul 2nd 2008
43. "I was actually beating my meat when I wrote this and damn it felt good."
The town I live in has a street named Becher, pronounced as if it contained one more "e". Many years back there was a butcher shop on that street.
It was not known as Otto's Butcher Shop.
bob at 6:20PM on Jul 2nd 2008
44. "As for Obama, his inclinations towards Marxist "liberation theology" are subtantial."
Dave, this is just another right wing smear. Yes, Obama was a member of a church that expoused the principles of liberation theology, but that hardly makes him a marxist.
Liberation theology simply asserts the hermeneutical principle that God is especially concerned for the poor and the oppressed. You can't get any closer to the message of Jesus than that.
While it is true that many liberation theologians employ a marxist social critique as a tool of analysis, few if any embrace the positive marxist prescription of a command economy ushered in by violent reveloution.
The fact is that Obama's Chrisitian thinking exhibits the influence of a wide range of Christian thinkers, most notably the "chrisitian realism" of Reinhold Niebuhr.
I really don't believe that the lies and scare tactics are going to work this time around Dave.
randy at 7:04PM on Jul 2nd 2008
45. Beware of those glib tongued orators who will say anything to get your vote. Obamas so good at waffling that maple syrup and butter make it digestible for many gullible voters who will be sorry later.His hypsters would make Ghengis Kahn look good.
Bill Williams at 7:27PM on Jul 2nd 2008