46. O.K. The left wants us out of the middle east. They say it's about oil but continue to block any attempt for us to become energy self sufficient by drilling our own known reserves and building new refineries. Sorry folks you can't have it both ways. I say start drilling now and free America from the slaves we've become to the arab countries. Stop giving the oil companies tax breaks. Give tax breaks and incentives to companies developing new efficient invirionmentally safe fuels. Build the new refineries in the middle of the mojave desert where there is millions of acres. I'm sure the desert turtles and lizards will move on. Cut way back on foreign aid and use the money to balance our own budget. Let the U.N. do their job in world affairs. Let the neighboring arab countries deal with one another and the same for the african and south american countries. Let's take care of ourselves first and quit trying to be the saviour of the world lest we go down like the roman empire.

Don Stagnaro at 7:23PM on Jul 2nd 2008

47. Obama has flip flopped on everything else, even his church, so why not on Iran?

That's the typical Dems M.O. Remember "flip-flop" Kerry?

linda at 7:51PM on Jul 2nd 2008

48. As for Obama, his inclinations toward Marxist "liberation theology" are substantial

xxxx

Why don't you explain to everyone why the government's bailout of Bear Stearns wasn't 'distribution of each according to need', comrade.

Clif Kuplen at 7:52PM on Jul 2nd 2008

49. Do you find the idea of beating ones meat shameful?

xxx

perhaps it is instead a weasel and he fears it may rip his flesh.

Or perhaps the florescent leech and Eddie made a wee wee in his hair and beat him with an old tennis shoe belonging to Jeff Beck.

....perhaps he is known by many names...

see, there's lotsa reasons. Maybe he's chicken. Beat your chicken he gon' die.

Clif Kuplen at 7:58PM on Jul 2nd 2008

50. If public sentiment tells the Obama campaign the war was worth and we should send 100,000 more troops there, I have no doubt he will say...

Well, Ive been thinking that all along.. Whatever words are necessary with the audience at hand

OhReally at 8:38PM on Jul 2nd 2008

51. Clif

It was nice for you to point out what an honorable man McCain was by defending Kerry War record from attack by the Swift Boaters.

Unfortunately, Kerry was dishonorable for attacking all those who served in Vietnam, many who were decorated and died.

robert okane at 10:35PM on Jul 2nd 2008

52. Who with an ounce of brains would read Huffington's Post. All she has is Liberals on her Post. If your a Liberal Lover then I guess you read it. She is obnoxious. She is also making a lot of money in our Country that she puts down on a regular basis.

Missy at 9:14PM on Jul 2nd 2008

53. Clif

I can’t help myself. I need to “Freak Out” on these “Hot Rats” like Joke-ane who seem to think that Obama is just another “Over-Nite Sensation”. It’s bad enough that they try to claim he’s a Muslim like “Sheik Yerbouti” while casting McCain as some sort of “Man From Utopia”.

But then again they’re just a product of the “Them or Us” mentality spun by the neocon pundits with “Unmitigated Audacity”. They should shut the hell up however and go back to working at “Joe’s Garage” or wherever they work and back to eating their “Burnt Weeny Sandwich” with “Lumpy Gravy” and shove the crap they’re spreading right up the old “Grand Wazoo”

I’m serious some of them are about as coherent as a bunch of “Baby Snakes” writhing to “Jazz From Hell” which is totally in keeping with their adulation of Monkey Boy and his “We’re Only In It For The Money” approach to the presidency. But then again “You Are What You Is” and I suppose they just can’t help themselves.

Waka/Jawaka

Uncle Meat at 10:42PM on Jul 2nd 2008

54. It was nice for you to point out what an honorable man McCain was by defending Kerry War record from attack by the Swift Boaters.

xx

yes, he was against them before he was for them. Now he uses one as a campaign puppet and has taken $70K in campaign contributions.

Do you include flipflopping as an attribute of honor, or do you now consider him dishonorable?

xxxxxxxxxxxx

Unfortunately, Kerry was dishonorable for attacking all those who served in Vietnam, many who were decorated and died.

xxxxxxxxx

Kerry was right then and Kerry is right now as Mccain said. You were wrong then and you are wrong now.

Remember what you honored McCain for saying: that the swift boaters did NOT earn their medals and that they lied about John Kerry.

And yes, when he said that, I had a much higher opinion of McCain already, but I wasn't aware of his voting record on women's rights, veterans' rights or the environment.

I knew from publicity that he opposed the Bush tax cuts and said that tax cuts during wartime were wrong and that he disapproved of torture and had no affiliation with religious nuts like Robertson or Falwell, but then he blew all that off and went for the bush admin like a hairball to a shop vac.

Incidentally 68% of the american people disapprove of the Iraq war, just out tonight.

So you're in the minority on this too. About the same stats as your party's registration and your president's approval rating and the approval of the economy. No wonder you want to talk about anything but your party's record. What are you even hanging on to?

Clif Kuplen at 11:43PM on Jul 2nd 2008

55. 53. Aha! My man Tink walks amok!

some people don't go for prunes,I dunno, I've always felt that..

Clif Kuplen at 11:50PM on Jul 2nd 2008

56. Don't like Obama's position on something? Just hang on for a while. It'll change sooner or later.

Jon-Eric Nissen at 12:03AM on Jul 3rd 2008

57. Here are a few flip-flops by Obie..just cut and paste the link into your browser...there's more than one source since its a page of references.

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=obama+flip-flops&btnG=Google+Search

have fun 'tards.

Dedmanrisn at 12:07AM on Jul 3rd 2008

58. Flip Flop Obama strikes again

Obama was against welfare reform bill than Clinton signed into law in 96. Obama refused to answer questions about that during the campaign.

Now Obama has put out an ad saying that he passed the welfare bill and put those on welfare to work and reduced welfare rolls 80%.

He was against the Republican Welfare Bill that Clinton signed into law which made the states change their welfare programs, and now is claiming credit for the welfare program and reduction of welfare rolls by 80%.

Another drop kick in the Clinton's face by Obama, taking credit for Clinton's roll in the passing of the Federal Welfare Law in 96.

robert okane at 1:28AM on Jul 3rd 2008

59. Obama you better be careful, your Left Wingnuts are becoming unhappy with your move towards the Center. Your flip flops are putting making you a "Moderate Democrat" and your Left Wingnuts are unhappy.

Hillary has suspended her campaign, not ended it. Hillary has not released her delegates and could step into your position if you lose support.

Hillary supports, I did not forget and don't you forget how Obama set his attack dogs loose on Hillary with a dirty and sexist attack on her. It is the same attack dogs Obama has turned loose on McCain attacking his military record, Clark is just one of the attackers,while at the same exact time, Obama has started a week long campaign aimed at boosting his Patriotic image.

robert okane at 1:38AM on Jul 3rd 2008

60. PS. I’m the son of a Vietnam vet So don’t try to say I don’t like military people myself because I’ll shut your sphincter (your mouth that is) by pinning my father’s Purple Heart to it.

Uncle Meat at 12:21PM on Jul 2nd 2008
----------------------------------------------------
Well Meatus, you are consistent in your defense of Kerry, you're going to use someone else's medal to do your attention getting.

Your father must be proud, print out your post and show it to him. I'll bet you he has more scars than Kerry does with three PH's plus he probaly did a full tour unless he got the "million dollar" wound.

I have been around vets from WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Desert Storm, OEF, OIF, and I very very seldom hear any talk about the dirty part of war, you know, picking up the pieces that was your buddy, hosing out a UH-1 Dustoff finished from going to a hot LZ for 8 hrs. doing pickups, no laughing about how funny it was seeing the "Sarge" doing cartwheels when the mortar round hit him...I just never hear them, why is that?

I have had relatives in almost every war this country has ever had, and its the same with the ones I knew. My great-uncle never talked about getting gassed in France, none of my uncles talked about what they did in WWII or Korea. My father was in Korea before the North invaded. He had one can of .50 cal ammo and a half-track. He was happy to get out in '49. My other uncle was a photographer in Korea in '52. He didn't talk about what he photographed. Four cousins, an uncle and a brother in Vietnam,with malaria, PTSD, Agent Orange related carcinomas, flashbacks, divorces, but no war stories.

Then you have John F. Kerry who not only pulled an "early out" through a technicality meant for more than a small splinter of a shell fragment, but there is his after action deeds that warrant far more scrutiny. Kerry had time to return to where he shot the VC (out of sight mind you) and brought back a rocket launcher. He beached his boat (operational no no for swift boats) to get his kill, then went back the next day and filmed where he had accomplished his daring combat. Know anyone that wanted to go to Khe Sanh to take pictures of himself dodging 155mm NVA artillery shells?

Kerry wasn't originally in Swifties, he transferred to them, probably thinking it was another cush job looking good on his resume'. Then the s*it hit the fan and Lt. Kerry found out he was, to paraphrase Martin Sheen in Apocalypse Now, "In a world of shit!". During his Christmas vacation in Cambodia, he had time to read all the Navy rules and regs for how to get out of this world ASAP, and lo, there it was, three PH's and you're out. Kerry got his three, said adios I'm leaving you, my comrades with whom I've raped, pillaged, tortured, poisoned and now sodomizing you, I'm off to the big PX.

Kerry found out that his veteran status really wasn't much of a job getter, but that one could get laid and get noticed as a war protester, plus not getting treated like a leper, Kerry switched his loyalty to the "dark side" and (mind you he was still thinking of his political career resume') begain getting more and more involved with the anti-war movement. "winter Soldier" and his testimony before Congress in 1971. Kerry painted with a very broad brush, and many of his cohorts who also testified WERE found to have not been veterans, were never in combat, were never in Vietnam...in other words, frigging liars.

No I won't say there weren't atrocities committed in Vietnam, but more were committed in the last three than the seven before them. As for the number of atrocities, the VC committed more during the Tet Offensive than we did during the war. My Lai was carried out bt Lt. Calley and his men, but in most accounts, its left out that the day before, they had lost two men and suffered casualties from a vil with "no VC" in it. The next day, I guess they really weren't checking ID's. They shot everyone, but it seems that not everyone was a shooter nor could they live with it so it came to light. I had the occaision to have a South Vietnamese Major say, in essence, that My Lai was nothing compared to the reign of terror the VC and NVA had inflicted on the South Vietnamese people before, during and after Tet, that the media had chosen to ignore these atrocities for years but made My Lai page one because of the anti-war leanings of the media.

I can still see Walter Cronkite at Khe Sanh, using a burning C-130 as a background to issue a diatribe on how the US was "losing" this war, the same media line used to describe the breach of the wall at the US embassy in Saigon that the war was "lost" even though not on VC made it into the Embassy itself, it was a propaganda coup aided by our own media that was the turning point in the war as Gen Giap was to recount later in his memoirs although Tet had him removed as general commander due to the military disaster that was Tet for the NVA and VC who were never a viable fighting force after Tet. The NVA did all the heavy fighting afterwards.
Read this Meatus and if your father is still alive, Thank him for his service to our country, God knows he didn't get it when he came back.

Vietnam War Facts: Facts, Statistics, Fake Warrior Numbers, and Myths Dispelled

9,087,000 military personnel served on active duty during the official
Vietnam era from August 5, 1964 to May 7, 1975.
2,709,918 Americans served in uniform in Vietnam
Vietnam Veterans represented 9.7% of their generation.
240 men were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War
The first man to die in Vietnam was James Davis, in 1958. He was with
the 509th Radio Research Station. Davis Station in Saigon was named for him.
58,148 were killed in Vietnam
75,000 were severely disabled
23,214 were 100% disabled
5,283 lost limbs
1,081 sustained multiple amputations
Of those killed, 61% were younger than 21
11,465 of those killed were younger than 20 years old
Of those killed, 17,539 were married
Average age of men killed: 23.1 years
Five men killed in Vietnam were only 16 years old.
The oldest man killed was 62 years old.
As of January 15, 2004, there are 1,875 Americans still unaccounted
for from the Vietnam War.
97% of Vietnam Veterans were honorably discharged
91% of Vietnam Veterans say they are glad they served
74% say they would serve again, even knowing the outcome
Vietnam veterans have a lower unemployment rate than the same non-vet
age groups.
Vietnam veterans' personal income exceeds that of our non-veteran age
group by more than 18 percent.
87% of Americans hold Vietnam Veterans in high esteem.
There is no difference in drug usage between Vietnam Veterans and
non-Vietnam Veterans of the same age group (Source: Veterans
Administration Study)
Vietnam Veterans are less likely to be in prison - only one-half of one
percent of Vietnam Veterans have been jailed for crimes.
85% of Vietnam Veterans made successful transitions to civilian life.

Interesting Census Stats and "Been There" Wanabees:
1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August,
1995 (census figures).
-During that same Census count, the number of Americans falsely
claiming to have served in-country was: 9,492,958.
-As of the current Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving
U.S. Vietnam Veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511. This is hard to
believe, losing nearly 711,000 between '95 and '00. That's 390 per day.
During the 2000 Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to
have served in-country is: 13,853,027.
By this census, FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not.

The Department of Defense Vietnam War Service Index officially provided
by The War Library originally reported with errors that 2,709,918 U.S.
military personnel as having served in-country. Corrections and
confirmations to this errored index resulted in the addition of 358
U.S. military personnel confirmed to have served in Vietnam but not
originally listed by the Department of Defense. (All names are
currently on file and accessible 24/7/365).

Isolated atrocities committed by American Soldiers produced torrents of
outrage from anti-war critics and the news media while Communist
atrocities were so common that they received hardly any media mention
at all. The United States sought to minimize and prevent attacks on
civilians while North Vietnam made attacks on civilians a centerpiece
of its strategy. Americans who deliberately killed civilians received
prison sentences while Communists who did so received commendations.
From 1957 to 1973, the National Liberation Front assassinated 36,725
Vietnamese and abducted another 58,499. The death squads focused on
leaders at the village level and on anyone who improved the lives of
the peasants such as medical personnel, social workers, and school
teachers. - Nixon Presidential Papers

Common Myths Dispelled:

Myth: Common Belief is that most Vietnam veterans were drafted.
Fact: 2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers. 2/3 of the
men who served in World War II were drafted. Approximately 70% of those
killed in Vietnam were volunteers.

Myth: The media have reported that suicides among Vietnam veterans
range from 50,000 to 100,000 - 6 to 11 times the non-Vietnam veteran
population.
Fact: Mortality studies show that 9,000 is a better estimate. "The CDC
Vietnam Experience Study Mortality Assessment showed that during the
first 5 years after discharge, deaths from suicide were 1.7 times more
likely among Vietnam veterans than non-Vietnam veterans. After that
initial post-service period, Vietnam veterans were no more likely to
die from suicide than non-Vietnam veterans. In fact, after the 5-year
post-service period, the rate of suicides is less in the Vietnam
veterans' group.

Myth: Common belief is that a disproportionate number of blacks were
killed in the Vietnam War.
Fact: 86% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasians, 12.5% were
black, 1.2% were other races. Sociologists Charles C. Moskos and John
Sibley Butler, in their recently published book "All That We Can Be,"
said they analyzed the claim that blacks were used like cannon fodder
during Vietnam "and can report definitely that this charge is untrue.
Black fatalities amounted to 12 percent of all Americans killed in
Southeast Asia, a figure proportional to the number of blacks in the
U.S. population at the time and slightly lower than the proportion of
blacks in the Army at the close of the war."

Myth: Common belief is that the war was fought largely by the poor and
uneducated.
Fact: Servicemen who went to Vietnam from well-to-do areas had a
slightly elevated risk of dying because they were more likely to be
pilots or infantry officers. Vietnam Veterans were the best educated
forces our nation had ever sent into combat. 79% had a high school
education or better.

Here are statistics from the Combat Area Casualty File (CACF) as of
November 1993. The CACF is the basis for the Vietnam Veterans Memorial
(The Wall): Average age of 58,148 killed in Vietnam was 23.11 years.
(Although 58,169 names are in the Nov. 93 database, only 58,148 have
both event date and birth date. Event date is used instead of declared
dead date for some of those who were listed as missing in action)
Deaths Average Age
Total: 58,148, 23.11 years
Enlisted: 50,274, 22.37 years
Officers: 6,598, 28.43 years
Warrants: 1,276, 24.73 years
E1: 525, 20.34 years
11B MOS: 18,465, 22.55 years

Myth: The common belief is the average age of an infantryman fighting
in Vietnam was 19.
Fact:: Assuming KIAs accurately represented age groups serving in
Vietnam, the average age of an infantryman (MOS 11B) serving in Vietnam
to be 19 years old is a myth, it is actually 22. None of the enlisted
grades have an average age of less than 20. The average man who fought
in World War II was 26 years of age.

Myth: The Common belief is that the domino theory was proved false.
Fact: The domino theory was accurate. The ASEAN (Association of
Southeast Asian Nations) countries, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia,
Singapore and Thailand stayed free of Communism because of the U.S.
commitment to Vietnam. The Indonesians threw the Soviets out in 1966
because of America's commitment in Vietnam. Without that commitment,
Communism would have swept all the way to the Malacca Straits,
south of Singapore and of great strategic importance to the free world.
If you ask people who live in these countries about the war in
Vietnam, they have a different opinion from the American news media.
The Vietnam War was the turning point for Communism.

Myth: The common belief is that the fighting in Vietnam was not as
intense as in World War II.
Fact: The average infantryman in the South Pacific during World War II
saw about 40 days of combat in four years. The average infantryman in
Vietnam saw about 240 days of combat in one year thanks to the mobility
of the helicopter. One out of every 10 Americans who served in Vietnam
was a casualty. 58,148 were killed and 304,000 wounded out of 2.7
million who served. Although the percent who died is similar to other
wars, amputations or crippling wounds were 300 percent higher than in
World War II ....75,000 Vietnam veterans are severely disabled. MEDEVAC
helicopters flew nearly 500,000 missions. Over 900,000 patients were
airlifted (nearly half were American). The average time lapse between
wounding to hospitalization was less than one hour. As a result, less
than one percent of all Americans wounded, who survived the first 24
hours, died. The helicopter provided unprecedented mobility. Without
the helicopter it would have taken three times as many troops to secure
the 800 mile border with Cambodia and Laos (the politicians thought the
Geneva Conventions of 1954 and the Geneva Accords of 1962 would secure
the border).

Myth: Kim Phuc, the little nine year old Vietnamese girl running naked
from the napalm strike near Trang Bang on 8 June 1972.....shown a
million times on American television.. ..was burned by Americans bombing
Trang Bang.
Fact: No American had involvement in this incident near Trang Bang that
burned Phan Thi Kim Phuc. The planes doing the bombing near the village
were VNAF (Vietnam Air Force) and were being flown by Vietnamese pilots
in support of South Vietnamese troops on the ground. The Vietnamese
pilot who dropped the napalm in error is currently living in the United
States. Even the AP photographer, Nick Ut, who took the picture, was
Vietnamese. The incident in the photo took place on the second day of a
three day battle between the North Vietnamese Army (NVA) who occupied
the village of Trang Bang and the ARVN (Army of the Republic of
Vietnam) who were trying to force the NVA out of the village. Recent
reports in the news media that an American commander ordered the air
strike that burned Kim Phuc are incorrect. There were no Americans
involved in any capacity. "We (Americans) had nothing to do with
controlling VNAF," according to Lieutenant General (Ret) James F.
Hollingsworth, the Commanding General of TRAC at that time. Also, it
has been incorrectly reported that two of Kim Phuc's brothers were
killed in this incident. They were Kim's cousins not her brothers.

Myth: The United States lost the war in Vietnam.
Fact: The American military was not defeated in Vietnam. The American
military did not lose a battle of any consequence. From a military
standpoint, it was almost an unprecedented performance. General
Westmoreland quoting Douglas Pike, a professor at the University of
California, Berkley it was "a major military defeat for the VC and NVA."

THE UNITED STATES DID NOT LOSE THE WAR IN VIETNAM, THE SOUTH VIETNAMESE
DID. Read on........

The fall of Saigon happened 30 April 1975, two years AFTER the American
military left Vietnam. The last American troops departed in their
entirety 29 March 1973.

How could we lose a war we had already stopped fighting? We fought to
an agreed stalemate. The peace settlement was signed in Paris on 27
January 1973. It called for release of all U.S. prisoners, withdrawal
of U.S. forces, limitation of both sides' forces inside South Vietnam
and a commitment to peaceful reunification. The 140,000 evacuees in
April 1975 during the fall of Saigon consisted almost entirely of
civilians and Vietnamese military, NOT American military running for
their lives. There were almost twice as many casualties in Southeast
Asia (primarily Cambodia) the first two years after the fall of Saigon
in 1975 than there were during the ten years the U.S. was involved in
Vietnam. Thanks for the perceived loss and the countless assassinations
and torture visited upon Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians goes
mainly to the American media and their undying support-by-misrepresentation
of the anti-War movement in the United States.

As with much of the Vietnam War, the news media misreported and
misinterpreted the 1968 Tet Offensive. It was reported as an
overwhelming success for the Communist forces and a decided defeat for
the U.S. forces. Nothing could be further from the truth. Despite
initial victories by the Communist forces, the Tet Offensive resulted
in a major defeat of those forces. General Vo Nguyen Giap, the designer
of the Tet Offensive, is considered by some as ranking with Wellington,
Grant, Lee and MacArthur as a great commander. Still, militarily, the
Tet Offensive was a total defeat of the Communist forces on all fronts.
It resulted in the death of some 45,000 NVA troops and the complete, if
not total destruction of the Viet Cong elements in South Vietnam. The
Organization of the Viet Cong Units in the South never recovered. The
Tet Offensive succeeded on only one front and that was the News front
and the political arena. This was another example in the Vietnam War of
an inaccuracy becoming the perceived truth. However inaccurately
reported, the News Media made the Tet Offensive famous.

Please give all credit and research to:
Capt. Marshal Hanson, U.S.N.R (Ret.)

Capt. Scott Beaton, Statistical Source

Dedmanrisn at 1:57AM on Jul 3rd 2008