16. He's a democrat and his opponent is a neocon and despite how much some hate the word, a fascist in the tradition of Benito Mussolini and Ronald Regan and both bushes and even Prescott Bush. And the general manifesto of PNAC - that differs only in the lack of nationalism that fascists require.
xxxxxx
I asked you to explain not talking points or theory. Your typical old school liberal talking points with theory based accusations that always result in fascism. Nothing in your statement remotely answers how Obamas shift to center is "corporate media manufactured" it is just an empty theory you threw out there,Probably a swipe at Fox will be in the rebutal I am sure, but thanks for the attempt maybe it made you feel better. Sorry I wont be around to hear the paranoid old grumbling rebutal about neocons and fascists, that tirade is old and has been done to many times to merit a response. Seems to be an automated response from you.

Mosef at 3:33PM on Jul 11th 2008

17. "However to think that Obama can't play politics or won't is to underestimate his and his campaign's capacity. He comes from the best and toughest school in the US - the streets of Chicago."

Best and toughest? One of the dirtiest and most corrupt, perhaps. It's also one not known for producing pillars of statesmanlike conduct.

If I were in Obama's camp, I don't know that I'd be playing up that particular part of the resume.

As an aside, if you take a look at some of the folks Obama mowed down on his way to becoming a one term Senator, you might find some old Jesse Jackson associates.

bob at 3:49PM on Jul 11th 2008

18. Your typical old school liberal talking points with theory based accusations that always result in fascism.

xx

Now that is boilerplate republicanist talking points - all generality rather than the particulars I posted for you. 'old school' - jeez, do only cliches form in your head?

Mussolini's Fascism is merger of state and corporation under which the individual exists to serve the state.

I have the doctrine if you have any questions, and the failure to enforce Sherman and Clayton and the subsequent rise of supply side economics and 'trickle down' doctrine is prima facie evidence that this is a fascistic nation right now, right this instant.

This is identical to the concept of corporate deregulation and privatization and the undermining of the New Deal that are the essences of 21st century republicanism. 'the state will wither away' - no chance.

Republicans always inflate the state and spend more money than democrats - again fact and not refutable.

I regard that and the party that supports it as putting profit before everything, including constitutional government and security and there is certainly bales of evidence of that.

Anyone who wanted to could list page after page of this.

I explained to you in detail why obama has not shifted. You ignored that.

Watch any cable newscast and they will erroneously report that he has. You already know that.

What part of the equation could you possibly be missing?

It's like it's either zero or ten with all you guys. Rational thought requires a gain control instead.

Since you're lacking that, go vote for more bush and don't worry about it. He's your kind.

Clif Kuplen at 3:53PM on Jul 11th 2008

19. Best and toughest? One of the dirtiest and most corrupt, perhaps. It's also one not known for producing pillars of statesmanlike conduct

xxx
statesmen like larry craig, mark foley, bill frist, rick santorum, denny hastert, newt gingrich, phil gramm, bob ney, jesse helms, trent lott? pffft!

so what? you're voting for more bush anyway for whatever you got out of it and most of us won't be doing that any more. I guess you have your reasons but they're not very clear except maybe to you.

Clif Kuplen at 3:59PM on Jul 11th 2008

20. Clif you're the one that brought up Chicago politics.

Maybe if you thought through what you posted prior to doing so you wouldn't always have to volley back with the kind of nonsensical insults that negate any valid point you might make on occasion.

bob at 4:05PM on Jul 11th 2008

21. For the record, I could care less about how we currently lower oil pricing but I do realize that future demand will have to be meant by exploration, not taxation.

_____________

I would tend to agree in part. I don't believe that a windfall profits tax is necessarily the answer to our current predictment, but neither is exploration off the continental shelf. Most experts tend to agree that the amount of oil yielded from drilling off the continental shelf would be quite minimal.

I doubt that there is a viable short term solution to our current predictment. The only answer is a long term strategy of energy conservation coupled with the development of alternative energy sources.

By the way, the last president who led with vision and courage in this area was a Democrat: Jimmy Carter. I still remember the speech that he gave to the American people shortly after assuming the presidency when he said that breaking America's dependency on foreign oil was the moral equivalence of war. Had we listened to Jimmy Carter thirty years ago, we would be in a far better position than we are today.

Of course Ronald Reagan and George Bush the daddy, dismantled much of the Carter energy program, and so here we are today with record oil prices and no viable energy strategy except the military seizure of Iraq's oil fields. That strategy has been an unmitigated disaster.

So if you enjoy paying over $4 a gallon at the pump, thank the Republicans. If you want more of the same, vote John McCain.

randy at 4:30PM on Jul 11th 2008

22. 19. Clif you're the one that brought up Chicago politics.

xxx

Damn right!

that's where he cut his teeth and it's a great starting point. The proof of that is how he's doing politically.

His opponent is losing.

Spin that all you want but when you're done, he's still losing.

Although you're trying, you can't argue with success. Anyway you're not voting for him, so this is an exercise in futility for you.

He did what he did in Chicago with savvy and even his opponents from that time speak highly of him. Of course it trained him for what he did later, so the proof is in the pudding as they say.

You guys forget one very important thing. Obama is also brilliant. It takes him much less time for him to climb the learning curve.

Your man is something of a dim bulb and plodder and that has nothing to do with his age. Flopping to and fro on issues that used to be important and aligning with detritus like Gramm, who engineered the banking crisis and remains as his economic adviser doesn't help much either.

He's your man. Quit whining.

Clif Kuplen at 4:35PM on Jul 11th 2008

23. CHALK ANOTHER ONE UP FOR THE GOOD GUYS!!!!!! I GUESS DEMOCRATS AREN'T TOTAL LOSERS AFTER ALL........YOU ON THE OTHER HAND "OLD TURD" STILL ARE.

eric at 4:58PM on Jul 11th 2008

24. Clif, I could point out the inconsistency of you suggesting I not comment on someone I'm not voting for in the same post that features you commenting on someone you're not voting for.

But I won't

Have a good weekend, Clif.

bob at 5:13PM on Jul 11th 2008

25. If I wanted a political pussy for President, I'd write in, "Nancy Pelosi."

Cenk is right. It is all about how the issue is framed.

Captain Negative at 5:14PM on Jul 11th 2008

26. I don't have anything to hide from the government. They can serveil me all the want to. However, I hardly think they will bother with little old boring me. Or millions of other Americans. Why have a coniption fit over this Cenk.. Do you have any thing to hide? Get this, Barack Obama knows he can't win the election if mainstream America thinks he might compromise our safety.You ought to know that.But no, you are the typical naive Democrat thinking that your party can run a far leftie and win. The fact is , most Americans hate the far left, even some Democrats.Remember when that asshole Kerry got on t.v. with those other asshole movie stars and declared to them that they were the heart and soul of America. How stupid was that? Guess he found out who is really the heart and soul of America.Obama is just a little bit smarter than horse face Kerry.When will you get a clue? Your kind sucks.

audrey hobbs at 6:56PM on Jul 11th 2008

27. 23. Clif, I could point out the inconsistency of you suggesting I not comment on someone I'm not voting for in the same post that features you commenting on someone you're not voting for.
xxx

where you read that is beyond me. I certainly didn't say that - comment on anything you want. It won't change anything.

Clif Kuplen at 7:27PM on Jul 11th 2008

28. I was basing it on this comment:

"Although you're trying, you can't argue with success. Anyway you're not voting for him, so this is an exercise in futility for you."

If you weren't suggesting that it was futile for me to comment on someone I'm not voting for, then maybe you could clarify.

bob at 7:47PM on Jul 11th 2008

29. Randy,

I think you & I have different party affiliations but not too far off in our thinking with just a few exceptions.

You said:

>>>I would tend to agree in part. I don't believe that a windfall profits tax is necessarily the answer to our current predictment, but neither is exploration off the continental shelf. Most experts tend to agree that the amount of oil yielded from drilling off the continental shelf would be quite minimal.>>>

Offshore drilling is just one of the unknown aspects to our reserves. ANWR, shale reduction and the combined exploration of deep water has an abundance I'm not comfortable with any expert opinion as to capacity. The yields I've heard which are circumspect tend to be much higher.


>>>I doubt that there is a viable short term solution to our current predictment. The only answer is a long term strategy of energy conservation coupled with the development of alternative energy sources.>>>

I agree, conservation should be mandated on federal, state & local levels in a non intrusive manner but well in the public's eyesight.

Current affairs at the gas pump shouldn't be just a temporary glitch that we get over but a far reaching reminder if not today, eventually this issue has to be dealt with in the most renewable, permanent fashion & infrastructure we can come up with.


>>>By the way, the last president who led with vision and courage in this area was a Democrat: Jimmy Carter. I still remember the speech that he gave to the American people shortly after assuming the presidency when he said that breaking America's dependency on foreign oil was the moral equivalence of war. Had we listened to Jimmy Carter thirty years ago, we would be in a far better position than we are today.>>>

Carter was mindful of the problems facing us in the future. His energy policy was unfortunately lost in the mahem of his time & the relaxed attitude that I expressed in the last paragraph. I do differ with you on his policies to correct America's immediate oil related problems during his administration. IMO he wasn't a good practitioner of his own thoughts.

>>> Of course Ronald Reagan and George Bush the daddy, dismantled much of the Carter energy program, and so here we are today with record oil prices and no viable energy strategy except the military seizure of Iraq's oil fields. That strategy has been an unmitigated disaster.>>>

It's obvious that up until now no other administration has had to re-focus its' energy on what the past 30 yrs has or has not produced. Hindsight might tell us that lessons should be learned from the Exxon Valdez but coddling the caribou can be counter productive as well.

>>>So if you enjoy paying over $4 a gallon at the pump, thank the Republicans. If you want more of the same, vote John McCain.>>>

I wish you would have left off that part of your claim & it partially contradicts your opening paragraph but in the spirit of compromise, I hope WE have the fortitude today to resolve this for tomorrow for everyone....

Bobby at 11:47PM on Jul 11th 2008