46. That you've got a lot of spare time on your hands and nothing much to do with it.

xxx

I have lots of spare time, bob. I planned my old age that way and it sorta worked out anyway. If you're planning on voting against your own economic interests, you might want to keep thinking about a few things, like democrats and moderate federal regulation of capitalism, stable economy, republicans, this.

Clif Kuplen at 5:28PM on Jul 15th 2008

47. This country is coming apart at the seams but our legislators (republican and democrat alike) have time to make a huge public relations fuss about Chinese manufactured American flags.

Captain Negative at 5:40PM on Jul 15th 2008

48. "If you're planning on voting against your own economic interests, you might want to keep thinking about a few things, like democrats and moderate federal regulation of capitalism, stable economy, republicans, this."

...and back to square one, sans the scrolling this time.

I do appreciate that, Clif.

bob at 5:47PM on Jul 15th 2008

49. The dittoheads are not gonna read this because it's too long and about particulars, but I think we're in agreement on most of this, Bobby.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx
that's why I offered "big" business should come under the watchful eye of the feds.

xxxxxxx

Sherman and Clayton - just enforce 'em again, to make the most general statement that's on point.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Mainstreet doesn't have the clout, noone cares to A DEGREE if you, myself or others go under. We're all "friendly fire" casualties. I don't accept that because mainstreet makes up the microcosm that the so called essential big boys feed off.

xxxxxxx

right you are unless it affects their bottom line, and they never seem to see it coming until too late.

You are also as a medium or small business, under fire you shouldn't be under. You are probably being restrained by bigger bunches and you could probably tell me why.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The reality is in spite of corruption the effect or perception of failure of our institutional giants outweighs the bailing out of them.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

media is partially responsible, and they were in 1929, or so I've read, but I think that's a negotiable statement. The problem is bailing them out just gives the money back to the crooks who lost it in the first place.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I think that would piss any reasonable person off solely because we don't get the same benefits. Such is the american way of doing business.

xxxxxxxxxxx

The American way of doing business has to be in the best interest of 1) America, and 2) her citizens. Without regulation it's easy to lose control of that or let it get secondary to profit. When huge companies create massive gravity wells, the medium sized guy is restrained. That playing field works better level, and sherman and clayton help keep it level.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Let me throw this at you. Fannie & Freddie are private enterprise, publicly owned companies. Would we want the Saudis coming in taking over policy of half the established mortgages in this country? They could easily do it legally & they have the means to do it. That would make the Anheuser acquisition look like a movie ticket purchase.

xxxxxxxxx

You're exactly right, and having them exist outside of the framework of the government makes that a possibility and a day and nightmare of mine.

Before LBJ, Fannie Mae was owned by the government. I think both should be in the same status as ginnie mae, backed and under control of the U.S. government like back then.

I HATE the idea that our local governments, schools, newspapers, medical centers, sheriff's departments, highways, anything could be owned offshore.

I keep saying, liberalism to me is an economy created by constitutional government that exists to serve the best interests of the U.S. and her citizens. You seem to fit right into that, but a huge nationalized company with a home office in the bahamas and a work force in china does not. Your business is good for America if it works the way I think it does, and the latter is not, in my estimation.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I've personally written this yr. off due to the local economic scene. I always invest on the side of caution though. I'm losing money at an alarming rate but I refuse to play the blame game. My stance is of personal sacrifice at the moment & offering my opinion to pragmatic changes affecting policy to better the overall situation.

xxxxxxxx

that's pretty general, but the direction is obvious. I've been involved in construction supplies myself but not anymore. I wish you luck, and I think better regulation of banking and lending practices will help us all, but not immediately.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I wrote my senator 2 wks ago, no word back. My advice is to dig in based on personal lifestyle. the pendulum will swing. I have faith in what brought me here....

xxxxxxxxxx

business will be good again, I'm sure, but we'll have to change the way we're doing it...again.

I enjoy discussing this with you, Bobby. Name calling gets nothing done, and our country is in a pretty big jackpot at the moment, I think, and we're still all Americans. I hope you can ride everything out. I have my own concerns as well.

Clif Kuplen at 6:00PM on Jul 15th 2008

50. Paul at 42:

Look, anyone who is self-employed had better know how to do their taxes to their best advantage.

If anyone's any better at it than I am, I'd be surprised. I have been audited once by the feds, but they wound up owing me two grand and once by the state, but they admitted they owed me two hundred and fifty bucks which I forgave, because they'd already paid it and lost their own dang records.

Why don't you try to drop the flipflop switch approach to blogging and accept that intelligent people recognize less than fully on or off situations.

You ought to know that democrats believe in federal regulation of private enterprise that operates in conflict of interest to America or her citizens, but NOT in federal ownership of everything and a classless proletarian society, which is what socialists do practice.

Liberalism can be pretty much summarized today as the understanding that the American economy was created and is maintained to serve the best interests of both the nation and her citizens.

Conservatism can pretty much be summarized today as the preference that America and her citizens should reform the law to place both in service to the global economy.

Under plan 2 above, security is always compromised.


That's better for you than talking about marxism, since if the labor theory of value which you advocated in 'support' of monopolies and a founding plank of the communist manifesto is true, then supply side economics and neoconservatism cannot be.

I'd leave the new deal alone too. You've been indoctrinated with absurdities regarding it by people who wouldn't have survived without it. Those people include you. Every relative you have that is now twenty years older than you has had the security they enjoyed and hopefully will continue to enjoy because of it and medicare.

OK, those are arguments, not swipes, and some irrefutable facts about what has brought us the security and prosperity that now appears to be gone again.

I'd rather discuss things on an attenuable level. If republicans hadn't called me marxist or worse over and over again, I wouldn't be citing them for reprising mussolini and their less than enviable history of military accomplishments.

Clif Kuplen at 6:35PM on Jul 15th 2008

51. >>>Bobby, I'm also praying that come November 4, the pendulum will swing back in the direction of sane governmental policies.>>>

Believe me, it will Randy. At the risk of sounding sorta sappy, if you're in dire straits, my sincere hope it changes for you as well as me. We're all in this together brother.

Just look at the U.S. as an old bellwether stock that's beaten down really good. It's got plenty of intrinsic value that everyone refuses to see. We might be a long term play depending on the outcome of things but even our detractors don't want to see us disappear. I'd say the American economy was a "hold" at the moment with my finger on the "buy" side....

take care & best of luck

Bobby at 6:49PM on Jul 15th 2008

52. thanks Clif,

I'm not here to demonize anyone, their philosophy or their lifestyle, that's not my right or job.

I only know one thing for certain & if we're all guilty of one single element of the times I would have to sum it up like this.

"United we stand, divided we fall"..

Let's all hope it doesn't take even harder lessons before we learn to work through our differences.

I only want progress that assures security in whatever form for the American public.

Take care...

Bobby at 7:08PM on Jul 15th 2008

53. BTW Clif,

You disappointed me a little not calling me out on my Saudi scenario with the buyout of Fannie & Freddie. I left an opening for you to grill me.

I was trying to bait you on telling me that would never gain regulatory approval by Congress. Of course it wouldn't. I know that's not the same regulations you're speaking of but there are external constraints protecting us all. They fall asleep often but hopefully not when it counts most.

Gotcha dude!

Bobby at 7:22PM on Jul 15th 2008

54. I gotta warm and fuzzy feelin' inside.....
Thx Clif and Bobby.

BOB JOHNSON at 7:51PM on Jul 15th 2008

55. I was trying to bait you on telling me that would never gain regulatory approval by Congress.

xxx

maybe not, I'm not up to speed on how much direct authority they still have, but what if it were bush or worse and whoever it was issued a signing statement? How much reaction would there be? With GE owning NBC, etc. who'd know?

That may seem irrational, but I would not have believed a tenth of what's happened since 2K fifteen years ago. And yes, I knew exactly who osama bin laden was fifteen years ago and was certain he'd be a huge problem eventually. I'm talking about everything else.

Clif Kuplen at 10:02PM on Jul 15th 2008

56. Well, I guess Sanford blew his chance for second place on the LOSING John McSame ticket!

emelpe at 10:12PM on Jul 15th 2008

57. I don't believe that too many people think that there should not be regulation on businesses, the problem is that the Government now over-regulates any and everything it can and uses the courts and the IRS to enforce that regulation.

The S&L crisis was brought on by government regulation, not anything the S&Ls did on their own. The Government laid out the rules for the S&Ls and they did quite well until the government changed the rules in midstream on the amount the S&Ls were required to hold in reserves. When this rule change came around, most S&Ls had loans far exceeding the cash on hand required. That was the reason S&Ls failed in such numbers.
You can apply the same thing to the housing crunch. When government tells banks to make loans available to the economically disadvantaged or face retribution, what do you suppose the bank will do? Make the loan of course. Banks have traditionally sold off loans to other institutions...I still get offers to refinace a home I no longer own and my current home was sold not more than two months to another lender. Nothing changed, but when I got the chance to refinance at a low fixed rate, I took it plus a ten year loan. Two years later, prices start upwards and my home gets to the 900k mark in an insane market. Enter the flippers. They buy four six, eight houses then turn them over and make 10k/house. When the market blew out, it was the speculators who got busted and just walked away.

Joe Blow, who made 80k/yr bought his home with a cheap (for three to five years)ARM and when that payment jumped two-three points, couldn't make the payments, yet lenders were under pressure from the government to sell to minorities and anyone else even with zero% down and when the train wreck hurt these people, naturally the government steps in to reregulate and save the nation.
Then you add to that mix that many of these houses were sold when gas was far cheaper, therefore to afford them required a long commute. 100 miles one way wasn't unusual but add &$4.00/gal. gas and you have big time cash flow problems,,bye house!

Both Clinton and Bush ignored the energy problem, but now Bush as lifeted offshore drilling restrictions but the state of CA thinks it can control drilling off it's shore. Fat chance. I can fault Bush, but he had far more serious things to deal with than Clinton. Had he acted we would be using our own oil right now. Fingerr pointing goes to Congess too. They have been so busy investigating and finding people to tar & feather they never saw it coming. If anything, there should be regulations on legislators. Not one should leave office richer than he/she came into office except for savings. Unused campaign funds are frozen while in office and revert to charity on leaving office. Should the candidate have other income, T bills, no blind trust.

The government allowed the legal sale of tobacco for over two-hundred years, then sues the tobacco companies for billions when everyone, even the govt. knew they were harmful. Why not ban possession and sale of tobacco? Because the govt. makes too much off of it. If its so bad, ban it. No, we'll be PC and regulate what you eat by legislation, neat huh? E Coli and salmonella can be eradicated by irradiating the food, killing the germs but we don't, we recall 190 million pounds of beef and throw it away...what a waste!

Henry Ford took the labor value and through capitalism, paid workers enough to buy the product they were making if they so chose. Ford dominated because he was first, but GM, Chrysler and many others soon became competition. Today, only the Union has a monopoly and it will kill the big three. Mobility has killed monopolies on goods but govt kills monopolys just because they are. AT&T was broken up into the 'baby bells' and service went to hell. Granted AT&T could be arrogant, but we had one of the best phone systems in existence and nothing the govt. couldn't have controlled with regulation or by legal action, leaving the system intact.

It amazes me when I see all the attacks on corporations in these blogs. Corporations exist to make money for their shareholders by either manufacturing or providing a service. Bill Gates has a corporation, you are using his product to read this. Apple was the dominant power in computers until Microsoft..competition led to greater technological advancements every six months. The computer you use now is a quantum leap over the first shuttle computers, yet we take all of it for granted. The family farmer cannot compete individually, but in a co-op they can band together to the point where we farm so much food we cannot eat it all. The hate for big pharma is another example....there are drugs that cure diseases that 20 years ago were incurable. Viagra was a godsend to men with removed prostates or on beta blockers for heart problems. The birth-control pill was the real pro-choice option for parents unwilling or unable to have or afford children, now we let the abortion clinic care for our "Little indiscretions" and God forbid a man wear a condom? $.25 was cheap insurance against unwanted children but society no longer places the burden of responsibility on either sex. Dispose of the problem Dr., thank you.

Responsibility is better than regulation. Responsibility remedies the problem because it is a problem. Regulation seeks problems to regulate ie seat belts, transfats, sugar, ad infinitum. You cannot make distilled spirits, but you can make car fuel in the millions of gallons or by the quart, you can drink both of them but one form is regulated, not the other, go figure.

Take firearms. There are over twenty thousand laws regulating firearms. Mandatory sentences for using a firearm in the commission of a crime, registration, limiting caliber (Saturday Night Special, which never existed). Bullet bans, gunshow bans, private sales bans, waiting periods, on and on. Cars..CAFE standards, pollution restrictions, speed limits on interstates 55 mph on 70 mph highway, seat belts, airbags, A/C w/freon that was destroying the ozone so we switched to a different blend of freon, but just charged more for recharging the old systems, used oil, antifreeze all hazards, yet NYC dumps thousands of tons of garbage into the ocean. There's more, but Cenk has just one problem...McCain has to defend his policies, not someone else. Ask Landreiu(sp) to define Obies and see what she says, ask J. Jackson about "Wag the dog" or the 'babymamafistjabafroturban supposed parody of the New Yorker magazine which, according to Powerline's blog was instantly recognized by the blue blood leftist as a representation of how 'we' meaning republicans see Obie. I contend that its their own prejudices and racism showing but attempting to denigrate those who don't like Obie because he's not JFK with a tan, he's a 143 day work experience jr. senator without a ckue, but this gives him cover to yell racist at the blind guy on the sidewalk and get away with it. McCain, in his frikking mealy mouthed way 'condemns it' when its his opposition is the guilty party. Go figure, Osama BL has nothing to fear if captured..he'll no doubt receive a new kidney or free dialysis and die an old man out of jail on appeal and there is where government has finally shown it is in need of thorazine and psychoanalytical therapy. We only have ourselves to blame though, we elected most of them.

Dedmanrisn at 10:53PM on Jul 15th 2008

58. I don't believe that too many people think that there should not be regulation on businesses, the problem is that the Government now over-regulates any and everything it can and uses the courts and the IRS to enforce that regulation.

The S&L crisis was brought on by government regulation, not anything the S&Ls did on their own. The Government laid out the rules for the S&Ls and they did quite well until the government changed the rules in midstream on the amount the S&Ls were required to hold in reserves. When this rule change came around, most S&Ls had loans far exceeding the cash on hand required. That was the reason S&Ls failed in such numbers.
You can apply the same thing to the housing crunch. When government tells banks to make loans available to the economically disadvantaged or face retribution, what do you suppose the bank will do? Make the loan of course. Banks have traditionally sold off loans to other institutions...I still get offers to refinace a home I no longer own and my current home was sold not more than two months to another lender. Nothing changed, but when I got the chance to refinance at a low fixed rate, I took it plus a ten year loan. Two years later, prices start upwards and my home gets to the 900k mark in an insane market. Enter the flippers. They buy four six, eight houses then turn them over and make 10k/house. When the market blew out, it was the speculators who got busted and just walked away.

Joe Blow, who made 80k/yr bought his home with a cheap (for three to five years)ARM and when that payment jumped two-three points, couldn't make the payments, yet lenders were under pressure from the government to sell to minorities and anyone else even with zero% down and when the train wreck hurt these people, naturally the government steps in to reregulate and save the nation.
Then you add to that mix that many of these houses were sold when gas was far cheaper, therefore to afford them required a long commute. 100 miles one way wasn't unusual but add &$4.00/gal. gas and you have big time cash flow problems,,bye house!

Both Clinton and Bush ignored the energy problem, but now Bush as lifeted offshore drilling restrictions but the state of CA thinks it can control drilling off it's shore. Fat chance. I can fault Bush, but he had far more serious things to deal with than Clinton. Had he acted we would be using our own oil right now. Fingerr pointing goes to Congess too. They have been so busy investigating and finding people to tar & feather they never saw it coming. If anything, there should be regulations on legislators. Not one should leave office richer than he/she came into office except for savings. Unused campaign funds are frozen while in office and revert to charity on leaving office. Should the candidate have other income, T bills, no blind trust.

The government allowed the legal sale of tobacco for over two-hundred years, then sues the tobacco companies for billions when everyone, even the govt. knew they were harmful. Why not ban possession and sale of tobacco? Because the govt. makes too much off of it. If its so bad, ban it. No, we'll be PC and regulate what you eat by legislation, neat huh? E Coli and salmonella can be eradicated by irradiating the food, killing the germs but we don't, we recall 190 million pounds of beef and throw it away...what a waste!

Henry Ford took the labor value and through capitalism, paid workers enough to buy the product they were making if they so chose. Ford dominated because he was first, but GM, Chrysler and many others soon became competition. Today, only the Union has a monopoly and it will kill the big three. Mobility has killed monopolies on goods but govt kills monopolys just because they are. AT&T was broken up into the 'baby bells' and service went to hell. Granted AT&T could be arrogant, but we had one of the best phone systems in existence and nothing the govt. couldn't have controlled with regulation or by legal action, leaving the system intact.

It amazes me when I see all the attacks on corporations in these blogs. Corporations exist to make money for their shareholders by either manufacturing or providing a service. Bill Gates has a corporation, you are using his product to read this. Apple was the dominant power in computers until Microsoft..competition led to greater technological advancements every six months. The computer you use now is a quantum leap over the first shuttle computers, yet we take all of it for granted. The family farmer cannot compete individually, but in a co-op they can band together to the point where we farm so much food we cannot eat it all. The hate for big pharma is another example....there are drugs that cure diseases that 20 years ago were incurable. Viagra was a godsend to men with removed prostates or on beta blockers for heart problems. The birth-control pill was the real pro-choice option for parents unwilling or unable to have or afford children, now we let the abortion clinic care for our "Little indiscretions" and God forbid a man wear a condom? $.25 was cheap insurance against unwanted children but society no longer places the burden of responsibility on either sex. Dispose of the problem Dr., thank you.

Responsibility is better than regulation. Responsibility remedies the problem because it is a problem. Regulation seeks problems to regulate ie seat belts, transfats, sugar, ad infinitum. You cannot make distilled spirits, but you can make car fuel in the millions of gallons or by the quart, you can drink both of them but one form is regulated, not the other, go figure.

Take firearms. There are over twenty thousand laws regulating firearms. Mandatory sentences for using a firearm in the commission of a crime, registration, limiting caliber (Saturday Night Special, which never existed). Bullet bans, gunshow bans, private sales bans, waiting periods, on and on. Cars..CAFE standards, pollution restrictions, speed limits on interstates 55 mph on 70 mph highway, seat belts, airbags, A/C w/freon that was destroying the ozone so we switched to a different blend of freon, but just charged more for recharging the old systems, used oil, antifreeze all hazards, yet NYC dumps thousands of tons of garbage into the ocean. There's more, but Cenk has just one problem...McCain has to defend his policies, not someone else. Ask Landreiu(sp) to define Obies and see what she says, ask J. Jackson about "Wag the dog" or the 'babymamafistjabafroturban supposed parody of the New Yorker magazine which, according to Powerline's blog was instantly recognized by the blue blood leftist as a representation of how 'we' meaning republicans see Obie. I contend that its their own prejudices and racism showing but attempting to denigrate those who don't like Obie because he's not JFK with a tan, he's a 143 day work experience jr. senator without a ckue, but this gives him cover to yell racist at the blind guy on the sidewalk and get away with it. McCain, in his frikking mealy mouthed way 'condemns it' when its his opposition is the guilty party. Go figure, Osama BL has nothing to fear if captured..he'll no doubt receive a new kidney or free dialysis and die an old man out of jail on appeal and there is where government has finally shown it is in need of thorazine and psychoanalytical therapy. We only have ourselves to blame though, we elected most of them.

Ded at 10:56PM on Jul 15th 2008

59. Sorry for the double post, my bad!

Dedmanrisn at 10:58PM on Jul 15th 2008

60. The S&L crisis was brought on by government regulation, not anything the S&Ls did on their own.

Are you kidding? The rest of your post may have been brilliant but that was so stupid I quit reading. You don't think individual coruption and countless money making scams perpetrated by the owners of the S&L's played any part at all?

tmo at 11:56PM on Jul 15th 2008