We just saw on Strollerderby that John McCain, an adoptive father himself, recently said the following, as quoted in the New York Times, "I think that we've proven that both parents are important in the success of a family so, no, I don't believe in gay adoption." Strollerderby goes into all the reasons why this is ludicrous, and how gay adoption has been shown again and again to produce kids just as happy and healthy as those in straight adoptive homes. If you want to humanize this topic, just check out this amazingly great blog by two men who are foster parents to a toddler.
But it reminded us of something John Edwards (remember him?) said back in the day.
In that seminal debate discussion of gay rights led by Tim Russert, Edwards said:
I suspect my two younger children, Emma Claire, who's 9, and Jack, who's 7, will reach the same conclusion that my daughter Cate, who's 25, has reached, which is she doesn't understand why her dad is not in favor of same-sex marriage. And she says her generation will be the generation that brings about the great change in America on that issue.
He may be right. Because it's not just Democratic kids who don't have a problem with gay marriage; plenty of Republican children are as socially liberal as foxy Meghan McCain (heck, she even watches bisexual dating show A Shot at Love, as GQ discovered).
We'd be willing to bet that in another generation or two gay marriage will not only be legal, but also that people will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.
Reader Comments ( Page 5 of 30)
61. Lizard regarding your comment "Also, hard as you try, there has never been any scientific evidence produced of homosexual activity in the animal kingdom"----- I never wrote anything about homosexual activity in the animal kingdom. However, there is plently of evidence to support homosexuality does occur in the animal kingdom and it doesn't take much effort to find it. I apprecaite this discussion but some of your comments do not seem relevant to the topic and it is becoming increasingly obvious that you really have not done adequate research.
Anthony at 3:42PM on Jul 18th 2008
62. Jane; your hatred is your sin.
Lizard; it's a photo of two baboons in the wild from Lake Tarangire NP in Tanzania and it's anecdotal at best. But, it happens.
Ryan Anderson at 3:47PM on Jul 18th 2008
63. Botts, I could not have stated it any better. You really hit the nail on the head, and I thank you for having the courage to do so. I am a devout Christian and it greatly saddens me to see people discriminate, judge and miss-use the Bible for their own personal gain, because they interpret what they want to interpret, not the actual words on the page. It is not our place to judge, God said so himself. It disturbs me how willingly people oversee this. Whatever happened to people being humble and accepting people for who they are? Jesus didn't turn the other cheek for his health.
CaseyKaye at 4:08PM on Jul 18th 2008
64. "Sheets?" You mean like the one worn by the uber liberal leftie, former Grand Wizard Robert Byrd?
Lizard at 2:54PM on Jul 18th 2008
xxx
Yes, those sheets.
In case you forgot or were simply not informed, Robert Byrd repudiated all that decades ago and has been a voice of moderation every since. Many dixiecrats including Wallace and Maddox did.
Apparently from his toast of Strom Thurmond, Trent Lott still holds the dixiecrat values.
The sheet wearers are all right wing fundamentalists now and have been for 44 years. If you don't believe me, ask them. God's on their side.
The Dixiecrats, by the way, including the late Jesse Helms went as one to the Republicans after passage of the Civil Rights legislation under Johnson in 1964. Must have been before your time, but I voted for Johnson and it was a huge issue.
I'm really surprised you can't keep that in your head. Unless you were in a coma, this was common knowledge. Didn't they make you study history?
Here's a very unsupported statement from a benighted fundamentalist:
"State of confusion? Also, hard as you try, there has never been any scientific evidence produced of homosexual activity in the animal kingdom."
xxxx
preacherbabble. The reality is that homosexuality has been described in at least fifteen hundred mammalian species including dolphins and cattle.
Here's a list from wikipedia it took me ten seconds to find:
African Buffalo[21]
African Elephant[22]
Agile Wallaby[23]
Amazon River Dolphin(Boto)[19]
American Bison[21][24]
Antelope[25]
Asian Elephant[22]
Asiatic Lion[26]
Asiatic Mouflon[27]
Atlantic Spotted Dolphin[19]
Australian Sea Lion[28]
Barasingha[29]
Barbary Sheep[30]
Beluga[31]
Bharal[32]
Bighorn Sheep[30]
Black Bear[33]
Blackbuck[34]
Black-footed Rock Wallaby[23]
Black-tailed Deer[29]
Bonnet Macaque[14]
Bonobo[35][36][37]
Bottlenose Dolphin[19][38]
Bowhead Whale[19]
Brazilian Guinea Pig[39]
Bridled Dolphin[19]
Brown Bear[33]
Brown Capuchin[40]
Brown Long-eared Bat[41]
Brown Rat[42]
Buffalo[30]
Caribou[43]
Cat (domestic)[44]
Cattle (domestic)[45]
Cheetah[26]
Collared Peccary[46]
Commerson's Dolphin[19]
Common Brushtail Possum[47]
Common Chimpanzee[48]
Common Dolphin[31]
Common Marmoset[49]
Common Pipistrelle[50]
Common Raccoon[51]
Common Tree Shrew[52]
Cotton-top Tamarin[53]
Crab-eating Macaque[14]
Crested Black Macaque[14]
Cui[54]
Dall's Sheep[30]
Daubenton's Bat[41]
Dog (domestic)[55]
Doria's Tree Kangaroo[23]
Dugong[56]
Dwarf Cavy[39]
Dwarf Mongoose[57]
Eastern Cottontail Rabbit[58]
Eastern Grey Kangaroo[23]
Elk[29]
Euro (a subspecies of wallaroo)[23]
European Bison[21]
Fallow Deer[29]
False Killer Whale[19]
Fat-tailed Dunnart[59]
Fin Whale[19]
Fox[60]
Gazelle[25]
Gelada Baboon[61]
Giraffe[25][4][62]
Goat (Domestic)[30]
Golden Monkey[63]
Gorilla[64]
Grant's Gazelle[25]
Grey-headed Flying Fox[41]
Grey Seal[28]
Grey squirrel[65]
Grey Whale[19][66]
Grey Wolf[67]
Grizzly Bear[33]
Guinea Pig (Domestic)[39]
Hamadryas Baboon[68]
Hamster (Domestic)[39]
Hanuman Langur[69]
Harbor Porpoise[70]
Harbor Seal[28]
Himalayan Tahr[71]
Hoary Marmot[72]
Horse (domestic)[73]
Human (see gay, sexuality)
Indian Fruit Bat[41]
Indian Muntjac[74]
Indian Rhinoceros[75]
Japanese Macaque[14]
Javelina[76]
Kangaroo Rat[42]
Killer Whale[19]
Koala[77]
Kob[78][79]
Larga Seal[28]
Least Chipmunk[80]
Lechwe[81]
Lesser Bushbaby[82]
Lion[26][83][84][85][86][87]
Lion-tailed Macaque[14]
Lion Tamarin[88]
Little Brown Bat[41]
Livingstone's Fruit Bat[41]
Long-eared Hedgehog[89]
Long-footed Tree Shrew[90]
Macaque[91]
Markhor[92]
Marten[93]
Matschie's Tree Kangaroo[23]
Moco[94]
Mohol Galago[82]
Moor Macaque[14]
Moose[95]
Mountain Goat[30]
Mountain Tree Shrew[96]
Mountain Zebra[97]
Mouse (domestic)[98]
Moustached Tamarin[99]
Mule Deer[29]
Musk-ox[100]
Natterer's Bat[41]
New Zealand Sea Lion[28]
Nilgiri Langur[101]
Noctule[102]
North American Porcupine[103]
Northern Elephant Seal[28]
Northern Fur Seal[28]
Northern Quoll[104]
Olympic Marmot[105]
Orangutan[106]
Orca[31]
Pacific Striped Dolphin[19]
Patas Monkey[107]
Pere David's Deer[29]
Pig (Domestic)[108]
Pig-tailed Macaque[14]
Plains Zebra[109]
Polar Bear[33]
Pretty-faced Wallaby[23]
Proboscis Monkey[110]
Pronghorn[111]
Przewalski's Horse[112]
Puku[113]
Quokka[114]
Rabbit[115]
Raccoon Dog[116]
Red Deer[29]
Red Fox[117]
Red Kangaroo[23]
Red-necked Wallaby[23]
Red Squirrel[118]
Reeves's Muntjac[119]
Reindeer[43]
Rhesus Macaque[14]
Right Whale[19]
Rock Cavy[39]
Rodrigues Fruit Bat[41]
Roe Deer[29]
Rufous Bettong[120]
Rufous-naped Tamarin[53]
Sea Otter[121]
Serotine Bat[41]
Sheep (Domestic)[30][122]
Siamang[123]
Sika Deer[29]
Slender Tree Shrew[124]
Sooty Mangabey[125]
Sperm Whale[19]
Spinifex Hopping Mouse[126]
Spinner Dolphin[19]
Spotted Hyena[18][16]
Spotted Seal[28]
Squirrel Monkey[127]
Striped Dolphin[19]
Stuart's Marsupial Mouse[128]
Stumptail Macaque[14]
Swamp Deer[29]
Swamp Wallaby[23]
Takhi[112]
Talapoin[129]
Tammar Wallaby[23]
Tasmanian Devil[130]
Tasmanian Rat Kangaroo[23]
Thinhorn Sheep[30]
Thomson's Gazelle[25]
Tiger[131]
Tonkean Macaque[14]
Tucuxi[132]
Urial[133]
Vampire Bat[41]
Verreaux's Sifaka[134]
Vervet[135]
Vicuna[136]
Walrus[137][138]
Wapiti[139]
Warthog[140]
Waterbuck[141]
Water Buffalo[30]
Weeper Capuchin[40]
Western Grey Kangaroo[23]
West Indian Manatee[142]
Whiptail Wallaby[23]
White-faced Capuchin[40]
White-fronted Capuchin[40]
White-handed Gibbon[143]
White-lipped Peccary[144]
White-tailed Deer[29]
Wild Cavy[39]
Wild Goat[30]
Wisent[21]
Yellow-footed Rock Wallaby[23]
Yellow-toothed Cavy[39]
It's a good idea to engage brain before hitting keys, maybe.
Clif Kuplen at 4:11PM on Jul 18th 2008
65. botts......you are DEAD wrong......the bible DOES say "men shall not lie with other men". Just what exactly do you think that means then? I think maybe you are the on e that needs to re-read your bible.
lilmisscantbewrong at 4:28PM on Jul 18th 2008
66. Clif Kuplen and Ryan Anderson
What you refer to is proof that ALL of creation fell when sin entered the world and all of creation yearns for redemption, (For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God, creation itself will be set free from its slavery to corruption…( Romans 8:19-21)!
"But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female, For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his (Mark 10:6)." “For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh (Ephesians 5:31)”
"Come quickly Lord Jesus!
janesophie1 at 4:33PM on Jul 18th 2008
67. 64. botts......you are DEAD wrong......the bible DOES say "men shall not lie with other men". Just what exactly do you think that means then?
xxx
After jesus said 'on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets', and the second commandment is 'love thy neighbor as thyself', nothing.
NOTHING! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaaaaa!
So. Are you claiming to know more than jesus?
Clif Kuplen at 4:36PM on Jul 18th 2008
68. Jane-
I take great pity on you. I only hope that one day you will be able to open your mind and see all the beauty that God has created. Until you cleanse your heart of hate you will not be able to fully understand what it means to live. My God is not one of hellfire and brimstone, but rather one of Love, acceptance and forgiveness. I hope one day you will be able to see the true nature of the Lord our God.
However, if you continue to spew your hatred, I ask that you remember one minute detail:
Stop drop and roll doesn't work in hell
CaseyKaye at 4:38PM on Jul 18th 2008
69. jane; I don't believe any of that. It's just a bunch of long dead guys who wrote some stuff to legitimize their positions of power within their church so they could control the likes of you.
Ryan Anderson at 4:38PM on Jul 18th 2008
70. I have a few things to say here. First of all, Marsha: if one concedes for the sake of argument that homosexuality is wrong (I'm a Christian who doesn't feel that way, but, again, conceding for the sake of argument) what does that legally have to do with anything? We don't make laws based on the Bible: we have separation of church and state. There are so many children in foster care who need loving homes: better for them to languish in the system, or to have two loving parents who might happen to be of the same sex? There is no evidence whatsoever that having gay parents negatively affects children (there's a social stigma, yes, but that will erode with time).
Macha, judging people's behavior is perfectly acceptable; it's judging people THEMSELVES that isn't right. Would you not condemn the actions of someone who, for instance, molested a child? (I am NOT equating child molestation with homosexuality here; I think monogamous homosexuality is fine, I'm merely trying to make a point about "judgment.")
Macha and Botts: Marsha has done nothing wrong with regards to the statement of her opinion on homosexuality (which she is entitled to and which I respect and understand). It is her position on gay adoption that is ignorant and misguided.
I would like to see conservative Christians' views on homosexuality change, while at the same time see proper respect and understanding for differences of opinion (and a reduction in misuse of the "don't judge" command). I myself have a huge amount of respect for those "right-wing evangelicals," having attended high school at a conservative Christian school with wonderful people, and I share many of their beliefs; where homosexuality is concerned, however, I believe science and experience have shown us that some people are born gay, and where the issue is addressed in the Bible, God is talking to people who are actually heterosexual by nature but engaging in homosexual behavior.
That is all. Thank you.
Cecilia at 4:41PM on Jul 18th 2008
71. McCain Doesn't 'Believe' In Gay Adoption
-Who cares? What the heck does this do with being president? Why should I personally care? I'm not gay nor am I an orphan.
martinel12 at 4:41PM on Jul 18th 2008
72. 59. I don't either. Way to go McCain!
dwalker259 at 3:36PM on Jul 18th 2008
xxx
he's gone? when's the funeral?
Clif Kuplen at 4:45PM on Jul 18th 2008
73. Homosexuals have by the very nature of their sexuality, demonstrated that they are, at best, very, very confused mentally.
Do we allow the mentally ill to adopt children?
No. It would be criminal to do so knowingly.
If a Man is so confused as to mistake another Man's digestive system as being a sex organ, what else is his mind capable of rationalizing?
These poor kids are in grave danger. Any objective thinker can see it.
Voice of Reality at 5:23PM on Jul 18th 2008
74. Voice of Reality; so since lesbians correctly identify and utilize sex organs, they should be allowed to adopt, correct?
Idiot...
Ryan Anderson at 4:54PM on Jul 18th 2008
75. "Come quickly Lord Jesus!
janesophie1 at 4:33PM on Jul 18th 2008
xxxx
ewwwww. who's on top?
Clif Kuplen at 4:55PM on Jul 18th 2008