"Christian God? Jewish God? Or no God?" This was the topic of a very lively Orange County debate between atheist Christopher Hitchens, the Jewish radio host Dennis Prager, and me. The debate was held in the spring at the Bat Yahm Synagogue, and the audience was predominantly Jewish, with a fair representation of Christians and atheists.
This debate is finally online, and you can watch it here.
One might think that this three-way format would benefit Prager and me, because we were the two theists against the atheist. But Hitchens, who is perhaps the most supple debater on the atheist side, did his best to drive a wedge between Prager's position and mine.
For instance, Hitchens hammered Prager on the history of Christian anti-Semitism, leading Prager to make one of the most extraordinary defenses of Christ that I have heard, a defense even more remarkable for its synagogue setting.
Hitchens also tried to get me to dispatch all the Jews in the audience to hell. Aren't you claiming--he asked--that your religion is exclusively true and everyone else's is false? I noted that all three of us on the podium were claiming some form of exclusivity. After all, if Hitchens is right about his atheism it follows that all religions in the world are false. So Hitchens is just as much of an exclusivist as any religious fundamentalist.
Moreover, I noted that Christianity is the only religion that holds another religion, Judaism, to be true. That's why Christians essentially incorporated the entire Old Testament into the Christian Bible. While I believe that Christ is "the way, the truth and the life," I for one am not willing to judge anyone or expel anyone from heaven.
Hitchens on the other hand has said that he doesn't want to go to heaven, which he views as a kind of celestial North Korea. I suspect heaven is full of people who chose God and prayed to Him, "Thy will be done." Hell is reserved for those who by their own free choice refused God and to whom God eventually said, "Thy will be done."
I notice that after posting all my early debates on his website, Richard Dawkins has stopped featuring my recent debates. This is perhaps an indication of how the atheists are faring. Of late I also haven't heard any of these guys call themselves "brights."
If Hitchens can't get the job done, who can? While the pusillanimous Dawkins won't debate me, at least Hitchens keeps trying. My re-match with him is on September 10 in St. Louis, and tickets are available here.
Reader Comments ( Page 1 of 32)
1.
DoubleD christianity holds judaism to be true, only as a distaff parent whose adherents may someday recognize christ as the truth. And should we forget the treatment we have received? Ghettos, pograms, christ killers...thank you christians for the love you have bestowed on us in the past.
There is no god or supernatural force that exists, except in your mind.
JefFlyingV at 1:50PM on Aug 17th 2008
2. All this is becoming boring DD. I am going to officially stop reading your dribble. It just drags.......
David at 1:52PM on Aug 17th 2008
3. DD: "Moreover, I noted that Christianity is the only religion that holds another religion, Judaism, to be true"
I guess you've never heard of Hinduism, which holds all religions to be true.
Or Islam, which holds both Christianity and Judaism to be true.
Ryan Anderson at 1:55PM on Aug 17th 2008
4. One thing that we, atheists, agnostics, and believers all share in common is life. We are all doing life on planet earth. Another thing we share in common, except those that believe in reincarnation, is the fact we have had life forced upon us. We did not choose to have life but here we are. How to best live this life becomes of utmost importance. Botts says, following the first two commands and everything else will fall into place. While I agree with him, that way of saying it leaves the atheist out as they don't believe in a God, and many of the agnostics have grave doubts. I would like to state it in a different way that I believe atheists agnostics, and believers can all agree with. Say we change the first command to say we will hold the truth, which according to Jesus is inseparable from God, as the foremost thing in the universe. By placing our faith in the truth as being all powerful, and that it will truly set us free. Now the truth I speak of here is truth that each one of us world wide has available at all times. Regardless of a person's belief or unbelief we all know the truth of what we personally say or do. Most, if not all, of us believe the truth will ultimately win out, no matter how long it takes. I believe if we allow the truth to become paramount in our lives it will lead is to the best life possible. If there is a salvation the truth is it. A serious goal is to make the truth more important than the ego. Because each of us is unique our truth will often be different from each other, it will be something we can share with each other, rather than something to debate and disagree on. One size does not fit all. The truth is a living thing, and it will lead us as individuals to the best life possible if we let it.
Second, command is to love each other. My personal experience has been, starting with a desire to love my fellow man more, gradually I have grown to love more. It is most helpful to be able to separate a persons actions from the person. The truth has lead me in such a way that the depth of love for each of my fellow man constantly gets deeper. What more can one ask for than life filled with love?
To the atheist, trust the truth, and follow its lead coupled with a sincere desire to love your fellow man as much as you can.
To the agnostic, listen to the atheist, and the believer with a growing desire to love them more perfectly as your truth will lead you to do. By putting your faith in the truth you can have supreme confidence that the believer has knowing there is a God, and the atheist has knowing there is no God.
To the believer, trust your truth with all your mind, heart, and soul, But always remember to filter your words, and deeds through a genuine love for your fellow man, never using your truth as a weapon while keeping in mind there are over 6 billion people on earth which means there are over 6 billion ways to look at reality. While you may have a way that works for you it is very doubtful if you unique way will work for everyone, allow each of us to have our own truth.
To never tell or do a lie would be perfect life. It is written that Jesus lived such a life, and he and the truth became one. The truth is the light, and the way. The closer we can come to living the perfect life, by never telling or dong a lie, the better our lives will be, and the more enlightened we will become. The truth is the most powerful thing known to man, and if you will stand for the truth, the truth will stand for you.
So there you have the best I have to offer.
jerry at 2:24PM on Aug 17th 2008
5. Apparently Mr. D'Souza hasn't been to the deep South lately. Down heah, Protestants don't even consider Catholics to be true Christians. Or Mormons, or Jehovah's Witnesses. Personally, I don't believe in anyone's God, so that makes me the Anti-christ or a Satan worshipper. Aren't Christians lovely people?
Annie at 2:24PM on Aug 17th 2008
6. No God is the right answer.
--------------------------
"After all, if Hitchens is right about his atheism it follows that all religions in the world are false. So Hitchens is just as much of an exclusivist as any religious fundamentalist."
--------------------------
If logic and observation are right, it follows that all religions are wrong. That's logic, not exclusivity. Science is not a religion. It's just another word for logic and observation. If one religion is right all others (being also religions) are wrong. But if science is right, then all faiths, superstitions, supernatural events, hauntings, and everything else that is illogical and unobservable, are wrong. Of course. How else could it be? It's not "our god versus your god" it's "We have determined that your god and all gods are impossible and false, and here's why."
Saint Brian the Godless at 2:24PM on Aug 17th 2008
7. Alas, once again, the dim-bulb religionists and non-religionists debate their puerile positions.
The truth is likely far stranger than any hominid-imagined dogma.
Robert at 2:24PM on Aug 17th 2008
8. Oh, I forgot!
ALOHA!!!
Robert at 2:25PM on Aug 17th 2008
9. One thing that we, atheists, agnostics, and believers all share in common is life. We are all doing life on planet earth. Another thing we share in common, except those that believe in reincarnation, is the fact we have had life forced upon us. We did not choose to have life but here we are. How to best live this life becomes of utmost importance. Botts says, following the first two commands and everything else will fall into place. While I agree with him, that way of saying it leaves the atheist out as they don't believe in a God, and many of the agnostics have grave doubts. I would like to state it in a different way that I believe atheists agnostics, and believers can all agree with. Say we change the first command to say we will hold the truth, which according to Jesus is inseparable from God, as the foremost thing in the universe. By placing our faith in the truth as being all powerful, and that it will truly set us free. Now the truth I speak of here is truth that each one of us world wide has available at all times. Regardless of a person's belief or unbelief we all know the truth of what we personally say or do. Most, if not all, of us believe the truth will ultimately win out, no matter how long it takes. I believe if we allow the truth to become paramount in our lives it will lead is to the best life possible. If there is a salvation the truth is it. A serious goal is to make the truth more important than the ego. Because each of us is unique our truth will often be different from each other, it will be something we can share with each other, rather than something to debate and disagree on. One size does not fit all. The truth is a living thing, and it will lead us as individuals to the best life possible if we let it.
Second, command is to love each other. My personal experience has been, starting with a desire to love my fellow man more, gradually I have grown to love more. It is most helpful to be able to separate a persons actions from the person. The truth has lead me in such a way that the depth of love for each of my fellow man constantly gets deeper. What more can one ask for than life filled with love?
To the atheist, trust the truth, and follow its lead coupled with a sincere desire to love your fellow man as much as you can.
To the agnostic, listen to the atheist, and the believer with a growing desire to love them more perfectly as your truth will lead you to do. By putting your faith in the truth you can have supreme confidence that the believer has knowing there is a God, and the atheist has knowing there is no God.
To the believer, trust your truth with all your mind, heart, and soul, But always remember to filter your words, and deeds through a genuine love for your fellow man, never using your truth as a weapon while keeping in mind there are over 6 billion people on earth which means there are over 6 billion ways to look at reality. While you may have a way that works for you it is very doubtful if you unique way will work for everyone, allow each of us to have our own truth.
To never tell or do a lie would be perfect life. It is written that Jesus lived such a life, and he and the truth became one. The truth is the light, and the way. The closer we can come to living the perfect life, by never telling or dong a lie, the better our lives will be, and the more enlightened we will become. The truth is the most powerful thing known to man, and if you will stand for the truth, the truth will stand for you.
So there you have the best I have to offer.
Jerry Brown at 2:25PM on Aug 17th 2008
10. There is but one god...that is the god of hate, murder, pale skin, limp hair, greed, intolerance, pestulence, and war.
Adolph Hitler at 7:32PM on Aug 17th 2008
11. http://news.aol.com/article/cops-say-mom-cult-starved-boy-to-death/130396
Mother starves son to death...
She became afraid of *going to hell* so she joined the christian cult. Actually, a cult member scared her of hell so that she'd join. The hell stick and the salvation carrot works again!
Hell again. The very core of the hypochrist psychosis. If we could get rid of the concept of hell, the religion wouldn't be such a threat to people's sanity.
Hey christians reading this! Does Jesus preach about going to hell in the bible? I'm curious.
I remember him speaking about love a lot, but I can't seem to recall his fire-and-brimstone speeches. Help me out here...
Saint Brian the Godless at 2:31PM on Aug 17th 2008
12. sorry the double post
Jerry Brown at 2:32PM on Aug 17th 2008
13. On another related note, I invite you all to join a yahoo discussion group of which I am moderator. A brief description of said group is posted on the home page. We are small at the moment, but have grand aspirations. I do apologize for my brief spamming behavior, but grand aspirations call for desperate measures on occasion. Here is the address and I hope y'all consider gracing us with your presence(s).
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atheistheaven/
Thank you.
Annie at 2:35PM on Aug 17th 2008
14. "I notice that after posting all my early debates on his website, Richard Dawkins has stopped featuring my recent debates. This is perhaps an indication of how the atheists are faring. Of late I also haven't heard any of these guys call themselves "brights."
If Hitchens can't get the job done, who can? While the pusillanimous Dawkins won't debate me, at least Hitchens keeps trying."
Dawkins had made it QUITE clear why he won't debate DD: he doesn't like him, an opinion shared by many. He has no obligation to do so, and frankly, were he now to agree to such - as DD FRAUDULENTLY suggested he had recently - I'd lose some respect for him.
By the way, DD: we're still waiting for proof from you that RD lied about pulling out of the debate. You, so far, have offered nothing, while RD has offered tangible evidence that you misrepresented this so-called "debate." You are a liar, DD, until you can offer evidence otherwise.
I'm listening to this "debate" right now; Prager is already getting on my nerves. Bringing in Chesterton... jeez.
Ian X. Christian at 3:04PM on Aug 17th 2008
15. LOL. Christians are not judgemental etc?
Apparently DD believes that slurs like "Kike" and "Mockie" and "Christ Killers" were coined by Atheists. It's interesting how quickly and easily so called "moral" Christians forget their own intolerance and prejudice.
JerryC at 3:05PM on Aug 17th 2008