Who Speaks for Islam?, written by John Esposito and Dalia Mogahed, is one of the most important books on the War on Terror. In the seven years since 9/11, we have been subjected to all kinds of ignorant pontification--much of it from the left, but some also from the right--on "why they hate us." This book, written by a leading scholar of Islam and the head of the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies, brings a wealth of real data to bear on this important subject.
The book is full of fascinating data on Islamic radicalism, on Muslim support for democracy, on the role of women, and on the values of Western popular culture. At first glance the results seem confusing: An overwhelming majority of Muslims rejects 9/11 style terrorism but a significant number of Muslims support the Palestine suicide bombers. Huge majorities of Muslims support democracy but reject the Western understanding of rights and liberty. In fact, a substantial majority of Muslims--including Muslim women--support some form of sharia or Islamic holy law. Most Muslim women want equal rights but even champions of those rights emphatically reject Western-style feminism.
What's going on here? Esposito and Mogahed argue that traditional Muslims, who make up the bulk of Muslims in every Muslim country, strongly identify with the Western principles of rule of law, self-government, and religious toleration. In fact, their main critique of America is that, as they see it, America backs secular dictators in the Muslim world who deny to Muslims the rights that are taken for granted by Americans. Many Muslims who back Hamas do so because they see the group as fighting for Muslim self-rule.
On the other hand, Muslims reject what may be termed 1960s liberalism. They reject the shamelessness and frequent depravity of American popular culture. They reject the type of feminism that relinquishes the home in favor of careers. They are resolutely anti-abortion. They consider homosexual marriage to be an abomination. Rather than import these "alternative lifestyles" into their society, Muslims want to live according to their own traditional values and elect their own governments that will defend Muslim interests.
Esposito and Mogahed shrewdly note that the values of traditional Muslims worldwide are very similar to the values of traditional Jews and Christians in the West. For instance, only around 15 percent of Muslims in Europe consider homosexuality "morally acceptable." That's way below the figures for the general public in Britain, France and Germany. But when conservative and religious Europeans and Americans are polled, it turns out that the percentage of people who are fine with homosexuality is about the same as that of the traditional Muslims.
Yes, I could say that I predicted all this in my book The Enemy at Home. But the great contribution of Esposito and Mogahed is to put a mountain of data behind these conclusions. Over six years their group has conducted tens of thousands of face-to-face surveys of Muslims in more than 35 countries making what they rightly call "the largest, most comprehensive study of contemporary Muslims ever done."
This book is a huge embarassment to conservatives like Victor Davis Hanson who, based on no data and very little familiarity with the Muslim world, have been portraying Muslims as violent theocrats who reject modern science, modern democracy and modern capitalism and spend most of their day performing honor killings and genital mutilations. This portrait of the Muslim world is about as accurate as that of a Muslim who believes that typical Americans live their daily lives according to the values of "Natural Born Killers" and "Brokeback Mountain."
What can we conclude from this book? First, that the values of the cultural left are an important source in alienating Muslims worldwide. Second, that Muslims don't reject modernity or the West: rather, they embrace what may be termed "1950s America" while rejecting the libertine values of the 1960s. Third, America can build alliances with traditional Muslims by showing them the face of traditional America, so that they see that Hollywood values aren't necessarily American values. Finally, left-wing groups like International Planned Parenthod and Amnesty International should stop pushing feminism, gay marriage and libertine values in the Muslim world.
Pundits like Chalmers Johnson love to say that American intervention in Iraq and elsewhere has produced a "blowback" of terrorism from the House of Islam. Wrong! It is in Iraq that America is allowing an elected Muslim government to rule according to Muslim interests and Muslim values. Iraq is the only country in the Middle East where the Muslim population actually chose its own rulers. Iraq is not the problem. Rather, it is the values of the cultural left, and the cultural imperialism that seeks to impose those values on reluctant Muslims, that is the real source of Muslim rage, and the best recruiting tool of the radical Muslims.
Reader Comments ( Page 2 of 13)
16. --Troy...it is NOT clear. Please give specifics as to which countries we are exporting liberal culture to, and what exactly it is that is being exported.--
Jude,
For your reading pleasure, please note the following statements, which are taken directly out of Dinesh's article.
"Finally, left-wing groups like International Planned Parenthod and Amnesty International should stop pushing feminism, gay marriage and libertine values in the Muslim world."
"Rather, it is the values of the cultural left, and the cultural imperialism that seeks to impose those values on reluctant Muslims, that is the real source of Muslim rage, and the best recruiting tool of the radical Muslims."
I think the point I made is well supported and crystal clear. Dinesh was arguing that certain elements within America should stop exporting the liberal culture to the Muslim culture.
On another note...
Ryan,
Is name-calling supposed to somehow refute my argument? Please try again, or stop trying at all.
Troy at 1:29PM on Sep 12th 2008
17. "So, did you have something relevant or useful to say...?" Troy
Hi Troy,
Well if I have to spell it out for you, sure.
I had a conclusion in my own post, that I guess you didn't read which coincides with my point.
Institutionalized Religion is a cancer not only on Governments and Countries but also the faiths they sprouted from.
Conservatives and Religious Denomination Leaders in this country would love nothing more than for us to be just like a Saudi Arabia or Iran but with their version of Christianity in control of everything.
And that isn't what Christianity is all about.
Botts at 1:32PM on Sep 12th 2008
18. Explain please how we or anyone can export a a 'culture' to anyone who is not at least a little bit open to it? Knowledge of another culture is only dangerous if you fear people will find that culture superior to your own.
Secondly please everyone quit buying into this global culture war bullshit. It's about money, always has been always will be. Religion is merely a way to manipulate. It's a tough sell to get somebody to blow themselves up in order to give a leader more influence in an resource rich region. Say the suicide is for God however and idiots line up for the chance.
Bin Ladin has stated he wants us out of the holy land which just happens to have billions of dollars worth of oil under it. If all our women were wearing burkas tommorow they would still hate us and bomb us whenever given the chance as long as we were meddling in the local politics.
tmo at 1:33PM on Sep 12th 2008
19. Troy,
Being a person that travels and works in the Muslim World, I can tell you first hand that their biggest problem with us will always be our foreign policy not our acceptance of guys banging each other in the ass.
Botts at 1:35PM on Sep 12th 2008
20. Troy; I was just responding in kind. Have a good day.
Ryan Anderson at 1:45PM on Sep 12th 2008
21. "In the seven years since 9/11, we have been subjected to all kinds of ignorant pontification--much of it from the left, but some also from the right--on "why they hate us.""
I want to see numbers. All I heard were Bush's contrived pontifications about how they simply hate "Freedom." Blow.
"Huge majorities of Muslims support democracy"
Here's my guess on it. Let's look at the Sunni/Shiite feud. At the root, the Sunnis believe Muhammad's successor was to be selected by concensus of a council (a democratic process). Shiites believe Muhammad's successor was already declared by divine decree. Most Muslims happen to be Sunni, so they are more propense to democratic processes of selection.
"On the other hand, Muslims reject what may be termed 1960s liberalism."
They reject values that go against their own religion? What a SHOCK!
"Many Muslims who back Hamas do so because they see the group as fighting for Muslim self-rule."
You want a theocracy, fine, you'll get the opressive government you deserve. Let's see how it works out
"portraying Muslims as violent theocrats who reject modern science, modern democracy and modern capitalism and spend most of their day performing honor killings and genital mutilations. This portrait of the Muslim world is about as accurate as that of a Muslim who believes that typical Americans live their daily lives according to the values of "Natural Born Killers" and "Brokeback Mountain.""
Dinesh actually made a proper comparison.
"First, that the values of the cultural left are an important source in alienating Muslims worldwide. "
That's their problem. I'm not changing for them. My diet alienates vegetarians.
"the cultural imperialism that seeks to impose those values on reluctant Muslims, that is the real source of Muslim rage, and the best recruiting tool of the radical Muslims."
Christians are the main source of reactionary atheist rage in the west. How about you stop your own cultural imperialism?
Dinesh's solution for peace is that maybe if we become more like them they won't hate us. I say let's not be pussies and change ourselves just to appease them.
Mokele Mbembe at 1:51PM on Sep 12th 2008
22. Uh, Dinesh- ever heard of Sayyid Qutb? You know, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, and one of the most influential thinkers whose ideas gave way to the radical islamic political movements of the present day?
Well, HE came to the United States in the midst of "1950s America." Guess what? It was that very culture that you're saying Muslims agree with that he found morally repugnant. It was his exposure to American culture at THAT time that inspired him to turn to a more ascetic, and in some ways militant version of Islam. He thought Americans were materialistic, and overly sexualized even back then!
So don't try and tell us to blame terrorism on "liberal values." Fundamentalists don't need to hear about gay marriage and abortions to get angry. Do some freakin' research, geez. Ugh, I can't believe you get paid to write this ridiculous column.
skomerath at 1:57PM on Sep 12th 2008
23. "Finally, left-wing groups like International Planned Parenthod and Amnesty International should stop pushing feminism, gay marriage and libertine values in the Muslim world."
Is Planned parenthood an international organization? If they are like the local version I suppose they offer education on birth control, which is proven to be effective against the spread of disease(AIDS which is rampant in Africa) and overpopulation(which would help combat starvation another huge issue). Unless the international version is radicaly different all they would do is offer information and if asked materials, no one would be forced to listen and or take the advice. Yes they promote the libertine value that people need not die young from starvation or a horrible disease, shame on them.
Amesty International is against the mistreatment of political prisoners and the use of violence in general I suppose. Promoting the libertine value that people shouldn't be tortured and killed for their beliefs.
Neither as far as I know has anything to do with gay marriage and the connection to feminism is only the belief that women have the right not to be tortured and killed.
I personally fully support the anti-murder, anti-torture, anti-starvation and anti-disease libertine values that seem to offend DD and Troy so much.
tmo at 1:55PM on Sep 12th 2008
24. DD:
So you seem to have found a book that you can interpret to imply that liberal values, protected by our constitution, are somehow the reason that Muslims hate the USA.
1) It is clear, from Goddess's post,(not yours) that the real major muslim objection to us is Foreign policy, which has consistantly tried to support dictatorial regimes in cases where this support was thought to "stabilize" our access to oil, etc. Although it is clear that there have been Democratic regimes here that have contributed to this, the last eight years have certainly carried Muslims' concerns about intrusive (invasive?) efforts to alter their governments to favor "our" brand of democracy to new heights.
2) As has been repeatedly pointed out, if Muslim countries do not accept certain western (Christian??) values that respect women, believe in freedom of and from religion (especially a State sponsored one), open access to information (even when it may be contrary to religious or government prohibitions of freedom), etc., etc...., they do not and have not allowed them in the countries under the control of Islamic Law. In reality, it may be the awareness that there are countries in the world that do permit these freedoms (which information is now very readily available to even relatively illiterate people in third world countries) that makes them "hate us" for exporting our "values".
3) To suggest that we should return to "1950's" values to assuage this hatred (which, coincidentally, happens to coincide with what the religious right "longs for" and would like to change our laws to accomplish) is patently ridiculous. It has already been noted that the Catholic Church has been through just such efforts to "roll back" societal evolutions which were getting in the way of its control several times in the last few hundred years.
N.B. Dinesh, you still managed to tout your own book in the same breath in which you appeared to be tumpeting you approval of this one. Way to go!!!
Harvey at 2:00PM on Sep 12th 2008
25. Wow, talk about appeasement! dinesh is calling for appeasing our enemies. Sure, Chamberlain changed a few things the way hitler wanted them, in the hopes that he would quietly leave the brits alone.
Oh, and by the way, how do you think our culture gets exported to them? this cultural imperialism of which you speak. Only through hollywood bullshit? the media? well, there're two giant industries right there. How about disney coke and mcdonalds? is that how it gets exported?
Hmm, all big business...now where did you say the liberal stuff enters into all of this again???
America's Most Gangsta at 2:19PM on Sep 12th 2008
26. by the way, my guess is that you probably think diem was the truly-elected ruler of south vietnam too.
America's Most Gangsta at 2:21PM on Sep 12th 2008
27. Does this mean we're not allowed to make movies about [content removed by D'Souza Islamic Appeasement Initiative] anymore?
Mokele Mbembe at 2:28PM on Sep 12th 2008
28. Wassamatta Dinesh?
No more posts about caribou barbie?
Something tells me we won't be treated to another post extolling the non-existant virtues of Sarah Palin from Dinesh for quite some time.
Uncle Meat at 2:29PM on Sep 12th 2008
29. This article is just another way of stirring the liberal left to anger. His post, as a robot would say, "Does not compute".
Liberalism and progressivism is the reason why the:
United States was formed in the first place
The "Equal Protection" part of the constitution was passed
Slavery was abolished
Civil rights were granted to minorities
Women could vote
-----------------------------
And yet here we are debating the "evils" of liberalism. Conservatism has done what for the US?
Fostered intolerance of religion
tried to keep slavery intact
tried to stop women from voting
tried to outlaw deviant sexual behavior
tried to take over the middle east
I dont think either philosophy should ever win out for sure. But if you destroy liberalism, you halt all cultural advances. Why? Because the definition of Conservatism is to keep the status quo; to stay where you are; to stop progress.
Pope Cack IV at 2:31PM on Sep 12th 2008
30. I've learned something new. I've learned that when I point out that no one this side of the 19th century truly believes that dinosaurs were walking around Manhatten a mere 4000 years ago, that no one but a religious zealot truly believes they can spontaneously speak an unknown language that lets them communicate privately with God, that rape victims should pay for their own rape kits', that abstinence only education works (even in the face of her preggers 17 year old), is NOT someone I want in the White House with her finger on 'the button', I'M INSULTING CHRISTIANITY.
All I can say is that if Muslims want me to stop insulting Islam then they should stop chopping each others heads off and dissolve courts like the Supreme Islamic Court Of Nigeria (the one that ruled recently that women can carry their dead husbands sperm around inside them for years before giving birth to his kid). If Christians want me to stop insulting them then all they have to do is stop demanding we teach 19th century science in our schools and stop trying to make me believe the Earth is flat.
lordfussy at 2:57PM on Sep 12th 2008