Do Muslims around the world back Islamic radicalism and terrorism? We've been hearing a positive answer to this question for seven years now from a slew of right-wing pundits who seem to be making a very good living as Muslim-bashers. These pundits are big on anecdotes but small on data. Fortunately we are now in a position to answer them with the facts supplied in John Esposito and Dalia Mogahed's important book Who Speaks for Islam? If you haven't read this book, you cannot consider yourself properly informed on the topic.
Esposito and Mogahed cite Gallup data that shows that only 7 percent of Muslims consider the 9/11 attacks to be justified. The authors don't think that even 7 percent of the world's Muslims are ready to sign up for jihad. Yet any group of Muslims who approves of 9/11 is a group that I think we should worry about. These are the political backers of Bin Laden and his cohorts. Undoubtedly Al Qaeda hopes to recruit from this pool. We should be monitoring this group closely.
But let's at the same time recognize that this cohort is a tiny minority. Images of Palestinian activists celebrating 9/11 or radical Imams leading chants of "Death to America" are not representative of Muslim opinion. There are right-wing pundits who have been trying to foment a clash of civilizations by proclaiming typical Muslims to be radicals, but next time you hear this ask for convincing evidence to back up such allegations. Most likely you will get unrepresentative anecdotes.
The larger concern for Esposito and Mogahed is Muslims who reject terrorism of the 9/11 type but nevertheless hate the United States. This hatred, however, is not mainly derived from American support for Israel or America's alleged imperialist history. Nor is it because, as President Bush once put it, "they hate us for our freedom." Rather, Esposito and Mogahed trace Muslim anti-Americanism to the belief that the West in general, and America in particular, are conducting a "war with Islam." And when Muslims are asked why they think this, they point to three things.
First, they cite America's support for secular Muslim despots. Second, they point the finger at what they view to be anti-religious and immoral values disseminated through American popular culture abroad. Finally, they seize upon the statements of inflammatory Americans who say, as Lawrence Auster recently did, "The problem is not 'radical' Islam but Islam itself, from which it follows that we must seek to weaken and contain Islam." My former colleague at the Hoover Institution, Victor Davis Hanson, seems to share Auster's view.
One wishes that self-styled Islamic experts like Auster (an attorney previously known for his efforts to reduce immigration in America) and Victor Davis Hanson (actually an expert on classical antiquity with excellent books on topics like the Peloponnesian War) would stop trying to launch the United States on a crazy secular crusade to undermine or transform the religious beliefs of Muslims, a group numbering well over a billion people. These pundits' analysis would be greatly improved if they learned to distinguish among Muslims.
No, guys: they don't all look alike and they don't all think alike. There are Islamic radicals who are our sworn enemies, and there are other Muslims who are being alienated from the United States because they want to rule themselves, they want to affirm traditional Islamic values in their countries, and also because they are disgusted with the anti-Muslim sentiments exhibited by people like Auster and Hanson.
Reader Comments ( Page 3 of 15)
31. So, apart from a 3-word quote, you proudly refuse to back up "bragging about which one of them could kill them muslims better and faster and bigger" because it's hard. Or because I'm stupid.
What about "Christian gals that are having most of the abortions?" Send some stats my way when you get a chance.
Has this kind of scornful ad hominem ever gotten you anywhere? Has anyone ever ever said, "Hey, wow, I never really thought about it that way. You may be right."? I'm thinking maybe not, and further predicting that you might think that's because your listeners are just too stupid to comprehend your pearls or the bases for them.
But hey, don't change your rhetoric on my account! I kind of like the distinction from my own in this important election year.
GaryB at 11:55AM on Sep 15th 2008
32. GaryB, Go ahead and doubt the exact wording of the muslim/repub/debates thing. But if you doubt that that is the overriding attitude among these fine men, then I doubt your judgment and/or sincerity.
Oh, and the Christian women having abortions comment wasn't mine, so eff that one.
America's Most Gangsta at 12:05PM on Sep 15th 2008
33. by the way, you ever hear of paraphrasing???
Sheesh, we're not in a court of law here. You could at least consider the obvious attitude of the repub platform and these men. If you need to see exact quotes for a point such as this, in a forum such as this, your mind was never open to begin with on this (and possibly many other) subjects.
America's Most Gangsta at 12:06PM on Sep 15th 2008
34. Here's a reasonable question for you, GaryB:
Do you need to hear "No, guys: they don't all look alike and they don't all think alike."
...or did you know that already?
America's Most Gangsta at 12:09PM on Sep 15th 2008
35. I always got the impression that Bush wanted us to think of all Muslims as terrorists. Why else would we go into a country and bomb it if he didn't convince the American public that it was for the best of the country and we needed to wipe out the scourge of terrorism? I never got the impression that it was a liberal track of thought - but a Bush one.
TJ at 12:16PM on Sep 15th 2008
36. "One wishes that self-styled Islamic experts like Auster (an attorney previously known for his efforts to reduce immigration in America) and Victor Davis Hanson (actually an expert on classical antiquity with excellent books on topics like the Peloponnesian War) would stop trying to launch the United States on a crazy secular crusade to undermine or transform the religious beliefs of Muslims"
Not to mention that anorexic, fascist bitch, Ann Coulter, most famous for the quote "we should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity" I wonder why D'Souza didn't mention her? It's a puzzle.
timbo at 12:20PM on Sep 15th 2008
37. It's a-me, Mokele!
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丶囲囲囲一一囲一囲囲囲丶
囲一一囲囲一囲一一一一囲
囲一一囲囲一一囲一一一囲
丶囲囲一一一囲囲囲囲囲丶
丶丶囲囲一一一一一囲丶丶
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丶囲一一一囲囲一囲囲丶丶
丶囲一一口口口囲囲囲丶丶
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Dinesh actually gave a criticism of right wing pundits? He must have a new employer.
Mokele Mbembe at 12:17PM on Sep 15th 2008
38. GaryB, go the www.abortionno.org This is an pro-life site. Look at their resources page, which they state is compiled from statistics from the Guttmacher Institute and Planned Parenthood. I will paste the paragraph about religion:
"Who's having abortions (religion)?
Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical"."
Kodiak at 12:52PM on Sep 15th 2008
39. "I don't think liberal America would be surprised at all. Your deeper point, however, seems to be that liberal America is responsible for a "smut culture". Liberal does not mean immoral."
Alyssa, I agree with you. The problem is that the radical Muslims do not. Think about this- you can speak to any man at any time you want-in our culture this is completely normal. It's not even considered liberal. Just normal. In a Muslim country or culture, this is immoral and illegal.
I think the radical muslims are afraid that they might lose control of their followers and feel threatened in a sense. My husband's family is Muslim, and although they pray and fast an follow the basic "laws" of Islam, they are in no way radical. They basically are just an average American family (who happen to be Muslim.) From what I have learned from my father in law about Islam is that,yes, jihad is a "holy war," but can only be used if your family is threatened. For example, someone breaks into a home and tries to rape or murder a man's wife, the man has a justified reason to kill the intruder. Now, the radicals are taking this too far. So, they fly planes into our building hoping Allah will give them their 7 virgins in heaven. I in now way agree with this or understand their thought process.
I think that 7% is most likely an accurate percentage of Muslims who believe that 9/11 was justified. You must consider not only the number of Middle Eastern countries, but also, the African countries, the U.S., the U.K., and many European countries that hold many radicals.
I still don't think that we should in anyway change our culture to accomodate a bunch of lunatics.
Dee at 12:52PM on Sep 15th 2008
40. DD:
Maybe we should propose a "cultural trade" with the Muslim world. Do you think they would agree to the following?
1. We'll reduce the amount of sexuality on TV if you quit subjugating your women politically, educationally, socially, and physically.
2. We'll reduce the amount of porn on the internet if you stop physically holding down 12 year old girls while their genitailia are cut off (forced female circumcision)
3. We'll stop drug and alcohol references in movies if you stop stoning to death women for adultery, cutting off the hands of thieves, and forcing schoolgirls back into buring buildings because they ran out of them without the traditional headscarves (as happening in Saudi Arabia last year).
I can guarantee you that the Muslim world would not agree to quit doing these things that we find repugnant so why should we accede to their wishes concerning our culture.
Bottomline: If you don't like Western Culture don't participate in it.
John Galt
John Galt at 1:19PM on Sep 15th 2008
41. GaryB..here's your stats.
150. Here's some stats for Janesophie1, "Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical".
Protestant women obtain......37.4%
Catholic women account for......31.3%
Jewish women account for........1.3%
Born-again/Evangelical skanks...18%
For a total of................. 88.0%
Women claiming no religious affiliation get 23.7%, the site must be a religious one because that would make a grand total of 101.7%(wink) and talks about 'pro-abortion sources'!
http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html
Here are some miscarriage stats.
"There are about 4.4 million confirmed pregnancies in the U.S. every year.
900,000 to 1 million of those end in pregnancy losses EVERY year.
More than 500,000 pregnancies each year end in miscarriage (occurring during the first 20 weeks).
Approximately 26,000 end in stillbirth (considered stillbirth after 20 weeks)
Approximately 19,000 end in infant death during the first month.
Approximately 39,000 end in infant death during the first year.
Approximately 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage; some estimates are as high as 1 in 3. If you include loss that occurs before a positive pregnancy test, some estimate that 40% of all conceptions result in loss."
http://www.hopexchange.com/Statistics.htm
Seems that 'nature' might be even more 'efficient' at aborting babies than those women!
God is awesome!
Don't forget that 88% of abortions are performed on RELIGIOUS women.
God is truly awesome!
I wonder how those statistics cross reference?
not-pboyfloyd at 1:22PM on Sep 15th 2008
42. EXCUSE ME! But most of us are not as enlightened as you are - we are not reading books about how maligned Muslims are.
WHAT WE AMERICANS KNOW IS: We don't hear an outcry denouncing terrorism, from the 'so called' peaceful Muslims - SO . . . IF YOU AREN'T PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!
If they (Muslims) stay to themselves, do not assimilate with the rest of Americans, then we are RIGHTFULLY suspicious of them!
YOU are here in OUR country - you are not a separate nation 'within' our country - you should let us get to know you - YOU MAKE THE EFFORT to reach out to us.
AND YOU NEED TO CONSTANTLY RENOUNCE TERRORISM SO THAT WE SEE THAT YOU ARE NOT IN FAVOR OF IT - as it is now . . . YOUR SILENCE CONDEMNS YOU!
I am afraid of you - don't you see that?
Judy Beaudoin at 1:37PM on Sep 15th 2008
43. Some visual exercises for your consideration.
Ignore the obvious lies and syntactic positioning of the word liberal with all that is evil in the universe which is D'Souza's stock in trade in the service of his handlers. You have to love his shameless use of Islam in his last few articles. Since he is not one known for building bridges to common purpose you have to assume that he is using Islam's so-called problem of liberal-lead global smut production as a smokescreen to, a) attack liberals, and b) project his own discomforts with the flesh on to Islam. But enough on him.
On to the issue of smut in Islam.
What constitutes smut in cultures where women are often blamed (and held responsible) when a man cannot control his libido? Cultures where in their most fundamentalist guise, women are required to completely cover themselves lest a man be stricken by lust which of course would not be his fault but rather the siren's call of some evil trollop. (Is that the reason or is it that women are considered property? ) We know for a fact that this is the most extreme form of Islam - but when does the average Muslim 'know pornography when they see it'? Everyone can agree that some things (such as the wretched abuse of children) is unconscionable but where are the smut boundaries? How different is the average Muslim's perception of the propriety of showing the human body, for example, compared to our own? And remember we live in a pretty self-conscious culture as it is. Clearly anybody who has been to Nice in the summer knows that Americans are far less comfortable with flesh than our European friends so it's obvious that we aren't the 'worst offenders'. But equally important - beyond what is already illegal, should we care? Is that our problem or theirs?
How many of your girlfriends, wives, daughters, colleagues, sisters, mothers, partners, friends have committed the 'immoral act' of leaving the house without covering their heads? How many have sinfully worn a bathing suit to the beach? Driven a car? What about Condi Rice shamelessly appearing in the middle east with a bare head? Hyperbole you say? Well, such acts have been considered immoral in some Muslim cultures. So are we to ignore the painful progress made in gender equality in this country so as not to offend others?
Before you answer just imagine a couple of scenarios. All you men out there need to imagine the shoe on the other foot (it's called empathy ;)). Would you be happy with the same limitations? Would you gladly go along with it for the benefit of transcultural understanding? I doubt it.
Second imagine one of the following images. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton or President Sara Palin is in the Middle East for a meeting with Muslim heads of state. How well would that be received? How well would a gun-toting, hunting women with the gall to be a head of state be treated? How much would she be expected to bend in order to not upset their cultural apple cart? Or would you expect her to represent 'American Values' and be done with it.
It's fine if other people choose to live their lives as they see fit - but remember that their rights end somewhere in front of the end of my nose. And if I and the citizens of my country choose to live otherwise, well they just need to learn to live with it. As do the puritans of this country which is what D'Souza is talking about anyway..
Pliny-the-in-Between at 1:31PM on Sep 15th 2008
44. Despite the thinly veiled dig at liberals, I actually -- for once -- agree with some of what DD is saying. Granted, it's not a profound message, nor is a new one, but don't judge an entire group of people based on the actions of a few, is still good advice.
Knowing that only 7% of the 1B population really hates us is better than hearing it's 90%, but that still leaves 70 million pissed off people. Sounds like we still have a big problem on our hands.
Further, I'm not buying one of the top reasons for this disdain is the hate of our culture. I travel a great deal throughout Europe and I can tell you that they flirt with sex in the public eye far more than America does.
I usually rate DD's blogs 1 out of 4 stars, but I'll give him 2 out of 4 for resurfacing a lesson we were all taught in elementary school.
Ken at 1:31PM on Sep 15th 2008
45. John Galt,
Blunt diplomacy. I like it!
Mokele Mbembe at 1:30PM on Sep 15th 2008