cali1:32PMDec 11th 2007

i hate to break it to the author but the catholic church forbids any homosexual act. if giuliani gets his moral stances from them, then legalizing gay marriage or not is moot, engaging in sex with a person of the same sex is a sin. end of story. its great how we can hide behind institutions like the Catholic church who have sold out to politics.

1-4-Romney3:16PMDec 11th 2007

Tommy, I think you are giving Rudy too much credit here. His statement is purposefully ambiguous. As you pointed out in one of my previous statements: Christians believe homosexuality is a choice and that choice is a sin. Therefore, you have these churches that tell people unsure about their sexual orientation to fight the urge and choose to live this way.. etc. So you could say RUDY means the urge is not a sin but to act on it is. Just like the urge to have an affair is different than actually acting. Now, I am not saying this is what he meant or your take is what he meant. His statement is just to vague…..purposefully.
You know I personally believe that homosexuality is a sin. However, that is not something for me or anyone else to judge or persecute. We are not told to punish people who do not abide by Gods laws. We are told to treat others as we want to be treated and to respect free will. “Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord" That is what really makes me ill about this. Christians use the Bible to slap homosexuals. Well people need to slap themselves for not following the bible too.
We live in a democracy. It is every persons right to be married UNDER THE STATE. However, I DO NOT think any church should be under law to marry homosexuals….only the state.

David S.3:58PMDec 11th 2007

What kind of a convoluted answer is that Rudy gave on "Meet the Press?"
Here is a news flash - I believe Rudy lived with a gay couple when his wife kicked him out of the Governor's mansion because of his affair with Judy Nathan. This was well played out in the press at the time. This gay couple were long time friends of his.
1-4 Romney - all Christians do not believe homosexuality is a choice. Such a blanket statement does not apply to all. Yes, most churches do not accept homosexuality but there are more liberal churches that do welcome gays in their congregation. Some are welcomed WITH their partners.
However, I agree with you that no church should be forced to accept gay marriage - that is a matter for the state.
The Republican party's hard stance of playing to the Pat Robertson crowd on gays is wearing thin - good God, the vice president's daughter is a lesbian who just had a child with her partner. Neither is exactly in the closet about it either. I suggest the GOP start acting like the "compassionate" conservatives they call themselves and - laughably - the "big tent party."

kj4056:51PMDec 11th 2007

What Mr. Giuliani is trying to say is that having romantic feelings towards the same sex is not where the sin comes in. it is when you act on those emotions and become not just involved sexually w/ someone you are not married to but sexually involved w/ someone of the same sex. do you not think we have a number of priests (sorry Catholic church) that choose celibacy because of their homosexuality. so instead of acting out on it and commiting a sin they attempt to give themselves to God. we do see many situations where this type of sexual restraint resulted in pedophilia since that is what is most readily available to the monsters who chose to act out their sexual desires this way. however, for others, they restrain from any type of sexual relation because they feel who they are attracted to is against nature and God. but in any event, i do believe that is what mr. giuliani was refering to.

1-4-Romney2:39AMDec 12th 2007

David S.
I am from the South. So.... I don’t know about liberal churches. All of the churches around here would have a hissy fit if two gay fellows walked in together. To be quite honest, I have never met a homosexual. All I know is that I believe in human rights and not mistreating anyone. A newly acquired friend has a passion for this subject and it has sparked me to put my two cents in on a subject I actually know little about other than how I feel.

I don’t know about the Christian blanket thing. The definition of a Christian is someone who accepts the gospel of Jesus Christ. If you accept that gospel and his gospel says homosexuality is a sin, then I don’t see how you can separate sin from choice??? That is why I say Christians teach it is a choice.

Tommy Christopher4:53AMDec 12th 2007

David S.,
while I agree with the substance of your remarks, I hope you can see that RomneyGirl's heart is in the right place.
RomneyGirl,
I wasn't giving Rudy credit, I was being sarcastic. For you and KJ405, and Rudy for that matter, the distinction you are trying to make is that being gay isn't a choice, but committing gay sex acts is a choice.
The problem is, that's like saying that being a flower isn't a choice, but blooming is a choice. If you accept that God made them this way, then logic dictates you must accept the behavior. If God's intent were to "call homosexuals to God" by being priests, he'd make them asexual, not homosexual.
The biblical injunctions against homosexuality are sparse and obscure, and just as Christians now freely eat pork and don't stone people or give burnt offerings, it might be time to reconsider these injunctions in historical context. It's my understanding that sin is in the heart. If two people love each other, and have no sin in their hearts for each other, why would God seek to punish them?
Beyond any theological argument, the question arises again, what right does the government have to dictate to gay people that they can't "free themselves from sin" by getting married, if that is thier religious belief? Believe me, you don't want the government interpreting your scriptures for you. RomneyGirl seems to get that, and is correct to note that no church should be forced to perform such marriages.