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'Can't Win'
Apr 3rd 2008 8:15AM
Filed Under:eHillary Clinton, Democrats, Barack Obama, Featured Stories
From ABC News:
Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., and former President Bill Clinton are making very direct arguments to Democratic superdelegates, starkly insisting Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., cannot win a general election against presumptive Republican nominee, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.
Sources with direct knowledge of the conversation between Sen. Clinton and Gov. Bill Richardson, D-N.M., prior o the Governor's endorsement of Obama say she told him flatly, "He cannot win, Bill. He cannot win."
Color me, D-Fl., surprised. While this is the lead story for a variety of news outlets this morning, and described as a "Clinton Bombshell" by Matt Drudge, I'm scratching my head and thinking, what's the big deal?
The My-Opponent-Can't-Win-In-The-General-Election line is not exactly new to American politics. Nor is it new to our current campaign. In fact, for a good many people who pay attention to such trifling matters as who our next president will be, it is the first question they ask when assessing a candidate: Can he or she win?In fact, when the Democratic contest began, that was my greatest worry about Hillary Clinton. Survey after survey, dating back to her exit from the White House, showed her to be a deeply polarizing figure to the American electorate. She might easily win a Senate seat in New York (where I once voted for her), but in the rest of the country her power to unite people seemed limited to vengeful Republicans. I concluded that the hatred of all things Clinton would not be overturned any time soon. In short, I decided "she can't win."
Of course, the "can't win" argument is not really based on hard evidence. It's a hunch. We won't know whether or not Clinton or Obama has the stuff to take down John McCain in the general election until that contest plays out. So our speculation, willful at times, should not be read as some sort of inevitable conclusion based upon indisputable facts. The Clinton's know that, I know that.
Even Bill Richardson, it appears, knows that. Political Machine contributor and Time Magazine gumshoe Mark Halperin has his own bombshell this morning:
New Mexico Governor, in talks with both Clintons about his endorsement, is said to have been the one to argue that Obama did not have the experience necessary to beat McCain.
Guess Richardson changed his mind. Who knows. Today, he denies ever promising Bill Clinton a thing. Squabble, squabble. The point is, we all have our intuitions about these candidates. We have formed an opinion as to whether or not he or she can win the general election. I will say this, John McCain certainly can win a Republican primary, and a whole lot of people said he couldn't. For that matter, declaring that the person who is currently beating you is not capable of beating the next guy, thereby implying that you can, is a bit of a stretch. True, sometimes it's all about match-ups. But that's not the way we play this thing. Just as in the NCAA basketball tournament, it's win or go home. You concentrate on the contest at hand, not on whether or not your opponent will win his next game.
One thing is certain from these revelations: If Obama's rallying cry, "Yes, we can!" seemed to be getting a tad stale, the Clintons private/public nay-saying has ensured that we'll be hearing it quite a whole lot more over the coming weeks.
Recent Comments
(Page 1 of 8)FOXYLYNX9:33AMApr 3rd 2008
OBAMA CAN NOT AND WILL NOT WIN THE PRESIDENCY - THE REPUBLICANS WILL SHOW HIM FOR WHAT HE REALLY IS - A LYING, INEXPERIENCED HYPOCRITE.
mrbline9:34AMApr 3rd 2008
I've seen this regarding Obama for a long time, and this is what I find so amazing.
Obama's opponents all the way down the ladder have said this of him, and come the day of his victory, Obama has always said, "Nobody expected (this)."
Heck, I didn't expect this. Beat Hillary? No way! But look at who is in front. This is no different than any other race he has won, his chief asset being his opponent's expectations that he will somehow be an easy defeat. For all the negatives everyone wants to say about him, he comes to play.
No Obama!9:36AMApr 3rd 2008
All votes should count. The DNC has totally dropped the ball on this one. The DNC is not more important than the people. Regardless as to what has happened with the Politics in the DNC, party members shouldn't be penalized. There is too much at stake.
The current condition of the Democratic Primaries would be drastically different if the results from Michigan and Florida had been counted and in play.
Because of this error, there must be a resolution that is not based primarily on consoling Barack Obama. The resolution should be based on the voters of Michigan and Florida period!
OhReally9:42AMApr 3rd 2008
While i never considered myself a racist, when I gaze at the sea of black faces surounding Obama I shudder to think that he is actually taking the civil rights movement back 100 years, pitting blacks against whites in what is becoming nothing but a racially inspired contest.
Of course he is where he is because he is black with 80% of the black vote. How naive to think otherwise, politically correct or not. Would he do well in a general election? Is there one disgusted-with-Bush Republican who will vote or him, right or wrong. This should have been the year for a Democratic landslide. He will hand McCain to the people of this country on a silver platter.
Given time, Obama could have been a great statesman but is he doing more harm than good, pandering to the black side of his heritage. Time will tell.
PARMA239:46AMApr 3rd 2008
Dean and the DNC have major problems with Mi and Fl. Clinton should not be expected to bail him out anymore than Obama should. When the money was ready for a re vote Dean you let Obama get away with changing his mind after saying he would back what the DNC came up with. Obama had a problem with private money paying for the re vote. Dean you let him get away with this so just suck it up and be the loser you have shown us you are
rh9:50AMApr 3rd 2008
The Florida and Michigan delegates should count. There shouldn't be any "if' "ands" or "buts" about this. What don't people get. In 2000, all were mad at the Republicans for not allowing all of Florida's votes count. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton blanketed the state looking for voter initimidation. Now the two see there is a possibility of a black president who appeals to whites and they are quiet as mice. They don't even appear on stage with him out of fear they will alienate certain white voters. Talking about contradictory.
www.andwearenotsaved.blogspot.com
1VOTE9:52AMApr 3rd 2008
OBAMA LIES DO NOT RISE TO CLINTON'S? ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME? OBAMA LIES EVERY TIME HE OPENS HIS MOUTH!!
FIRST; he denied having any relationship with Tony Rezco and contend he had only spend 5 hrs with him, discussing lawyer/client matters. He finally admitted knowing Rezco for a long time; has contributed almost a quarter of million dollars to his campaign; and paid for almost a third of his house.
SECOND; he lied being aware or hearing that his pastor had made any anti-white; anti-American; and anti-Semitic statements. Five days later he admits hearing the pastor make some of the controversial statements.
THIRD; he said he never had accepted campaign contributions from oil corporations. Found out he has accepted thousands of contributions from Exxon/Mobile etc. He even ran a Campaign Ad saying he did not take money from oil corporations.
FOURTH; he said he had never accepted campaign contributions from subprime loan corporations. We find out he has accepted over 1.5 millions from the top ten that are presently under investigation.
FIFTH; he criticizes NAFTA for its weaknesses and promised he would make changes to it. He then tells Canada it was just all political talk and he will not and is not going to change anything.
SIXTH; in 2002 he made a one sentence statement regarding his position on the Iraq War. He thought it was not a good idea; would be expensive and there would be consequences.
IN 2003, after the brief victory in Iraq, he said he was wrong about the War and that he just did not have the information Congress had at the time.
IN 2004, he said he supported and stood by Bush's position on the war.
LATER, IN 2004, 2005, 2006, he voted for continuing the war.
In his speeches, he lies to the American voters and contends he has always been against the Iraq war; as if he has never supported and/or voted for it. And/or have ever made speeches in its favor.
He has promised many times he will get us out of Iraq within 90 days; but his senior advisor tells BBC it is all just "campaign talk."
Are these lies; misstatements; bonehead moments; or bad bad bad judgments?? Barack Hussein Obama has told too many lies!
In November---When it comes time to pull the lever or check the box for President, the pundits and that completely worthless Democratic Party duo of Pelosi/Dean ARE GOING TO GET A BIG SURPRISE!
betsyfromtexas9:55AMApr 3rd 2008
A VOTE FOR OBAMA IS A VOTE FOR MCCAIN!
HE NEEDS TO GET OUT OF THE RACE NOW SO THAT HILLARY CAN GO TO WORK ON THE GENERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN!
I AGREE THAT OBAMA HAS SET RACE RELATIONS BACK AT LEAST 4O YEARS! AND WHAT'S MORE, WE MAY SEE A RE-PLAY OR THE '68 DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION! HOW UNIFYING IS *THAT*?!
GO HOME OBAMA, YOUR THIRST FOR ACCLAIM IS A SHAM!
mrbline9:59AMApr 3rd 2008
OhReally,
Errr Ummmmmm . . . did you follow this from the beginning?
Initially, Obama was viewed by the black voters nationally as something of an "Uncle Tom", more white than white. The blacks rallied around Obama in a direct correlation to Camp-Clinton reminding America that he is indeed black. It began with Hillary's introduction during the first debate between just the two of them. She said something akin to, "This is an historic election, because for the first time the Democratic nominee will be a black man or a woman."
It seemed harmless at first, but this is what the primary has turned into . . . gender vs. race.
The black vote has steadily solidified around Obama, and the female vote is intrenching around Clinton.
If anywhere there was a Tonya Harding knee-cap, it was that statement, and Obama missed a HUGE opportunity to end it there.
He should have come back with: "Yes this is an historic election, but because we have two higly qualified and progressive PEOPLE sitting here to lead us in a new direction. Don't vote for me because I am black. Don't vote for her because she is a woman. Vote for the one you think is best to lead."
There was the truest sign of his inexperience. He should have seen this, and because he didn't, Camp-Clinton has been setting the boundries ever since.
betsyfromtexas10:03AMApr 3rd 2008
Oops, I meant "A REPLAY *OF* THE '68 CONVENTION!"
IN ANY EVENT, OBAMA IS COMPLETELY UNELECTABLE AND THE SUPERDELEGATES NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT FACT!
HILLARY IN JANUARY!!!!!!!!
swamp10:08AMApr 3rd 2008
Obama–>Rezko–>Nadhmi Auchi–>Saddam Hussein & Muammar al-Gaddafi–>(Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, and Raila Odinga–>Sheik Abdullahi Abdi)–>Raila Odinga–>Obama–>Bill Ayers & Bernadine Dorhn–>Obama–>Rashid Khalidi–>Obama–>Rezko–>Jabir Herbert Muhammad–>Farrakhan–>Obama
Follow the money … see the ties
With Americans like Obama, who needs Al Qaeda?
Katherine10:10AMApr 3rd 2008
It's true. Obama cannot win. And for so many reasons.
I feel like I am surrounded by mainly democrats in my life, though I have a few republican people in my family, and I am seeing a man who is republican...and from the south...whose family is religious conservative Christian.
My point is, that we forget exactly HOW conservative and religious this country is. There are many many strong republicans, and they will not vote for Obama if he were to go against McCain. These people have strong personal values. It was a little bit of a culture shock to me, but I realize that many many Americans have strenuously strict ideas that are important to them.
--Obama is too liberal. I am willing to call him a radical liberal. He cannot win any republican votes against McCain. And maybe not even moderate democratic voters (like me). I've read his liberal survey answers, and he is way too lioberal for me. Just in the last few days in PA, he stated that a teenager should not be "punished" by getting pregnant and having to keep it after making a bad decision (unprotected sex). Well, some people hear that, and it's calmly true, but others hear it and it is SUCH an outrage, like OMG a child is a gift from God, and it's a blessing, etc...it really is offensive to some people. He needs to watch his mouth.
___________________
People will MILK the John McCain: Hero/ Patriot/ TRUE American thing VS. G*D DAM* America/ US of KKK, thing....and it has the potential to become something like: If you vote for McCain, you are a real American--if you vote for Obama...you hate America. It COULD spin like that. So likely.
____________________
Obama wins manily red republican states that will shift to McCain in Nov. and Hillary wins the key blue democrat states she needs in order to win the big prize.
____________________
Unfortunately, there is a great deal about Obama that has not come to light in the mainstream, and it will, and once that happens--he's totaled, and so are the democrats!
_____________________
Experience...McCain has a VERY strong argument there, and so does Hillary, but Obama does not.
______________________
This country is majority white, and we are not living in such a "progressive" society as you'd like to believe. They are many whites, asians, and latinos, etc that will not vote for Obama because of his race, and because of Michelle (her comments and her thesis), and the black liberation theology church as well...most people do not want to hear Obama has Farrakhan, the New Black panther Party, Al Sharpton, etc, and ETC--on his side. Noooo.
________________________
And...Obamamania is dead. It's dead. And that was the only thing he was really riding on. Now it's time to get to know him, and once America does...they won't like it.....even Black Americans will start to shy away from him in a huge way after he is exposed because I think most black people are very patriotic and will not like what they see once the news covers Obama like he is a grown up.
***Here is something....yucky....for as many people who do not want the war, there are plenty of people who do...and (god forbid) there was another terrorist attack---the country would flip out again and we'd be blanketed in one huge American Flag just like after 9/11. Well...guess how the votes would be?
mrbline10:11AMApr 3rd 2008
Okay, time to toss a bone out to the Hillarybots.
What you people have to google, is front page news for me.
Rezko CAN damage Obama, but not the way you think. Think Eliot Spitzer. Google who is going down in the Rezko trials . . . you'll find a name of an Obama Superdelegate . . . Rod Blagojovich, Governor of Illinois. The guy IS dirty. We in Illinois all know it. The only question that remains is when.
A connection between Obama and Rezko has been run through our journalistic ringer here, including a behind the door meeting between Obama and the Chicago Tribune, where he had to basically come clean with them or lose lose their endorsement. He satisfied their grilling.
Let is go. You won't find anything there. Wait for good ole Roddy to go down!
bonbon10:12AMApr 3rd 2008
Obama is only winning because the republicans are helping him win, they are so very afraid of Hillary, always have been, that they hve set Obma up to win the nomination . they have their nominee and are making a mockery of the democrats, and stealing yet another election.
along with the group of people who think if the whites vote for Obama, Obama will see what great people the whites are, and he will like them. it does not work that way
Obama is half white, and hates that fact, and every single white person he sees only bears to remind him, his blood is not pure black, and he wants to be Black and black only
if more of you would read his books you would see for yourselves, he has a hatred, that goes to his very soul for whites. that is why he choose to remain at a church that was so very black, and practiced hatemongering and racism.
the democrats do not have a chance aginst the republicans if Obama wins mincemeat of him
Vote for Hillary
OhReally10:17AMApr 3rd 2008
Mr Bline.. A couple of months ago "I had a dream".
That dream told me how lucky we were as Democrats to have two very qualiied candidates running for President. I saw an end to the disaster that has been a Republican administration. I saw an unbeatable Clinton/Obama ticket where Obama could be groomed for later things. I saw a united Democratic party in a win/win situation.
Now that dream has turned into a nightmare thanks to the Obama Political Machine and others. Not only has this race divided us, I personally have a problem with the media trying to jam Obama down our throats and am fully convinced he can not win in a general election. On the Straw Poll he can't even win his home state of Illinois.
Never in the last 20 years have I been tempted to cross the aisle from Blue to Red in a Presidential election. That is no longer true.
OhReally10:26AMApr 3rd 2008
Katherine...how nice to hear a voice of intellient reason, amongst all the meaningless political rhetoric on these boards.
Katherine10:29AMApr 3rd 2008
swamp,
thanks for that comment...it surprised me to see that!! I would be the one who thinks that is a very important tip...!!
------------
Ok, I forgot to mention another reason why Obama cannot win. The Hillary supporters (hard-core democrats, etc)...will not all vote for Obama if he goes up against McCain.
You have to understand that Hillary people feel like the media has bashed Hillary and have been unethical with their favoritism for Obama. There are many reasons that Hillary supporters are against this media favoritism, but I have a feeling that a lot of women think it's gender discrimination. Well, why should they vote for a man who got his lift off based in sexism?
Also, OBAMA lovin' in the media essentially shelved Ron Paul...and everyone else...THEY don't like it either.
Plus, Hillary supporters feel offended by the DNC and their decisions concerning FL and MI. Well, they'll vote in a way that will SHOW their feelings--and that might mean a vote for McCain.
mrbline10:37AMApr 3rd 2008
Oh Really,
Regarding the AOL straw poll, I saw something that made me question it seriously. Someone on these very comment pages announced how to vote more than once . . . a Clinton supporter. It has to do with deleting your cookies. I don't follow polls. They had Kerry winning in 2004, Obama coming in third in Iowa, winning New Hampshire.
I typically comment on what has happened and project from there. Sometimes I am right. Sometimes I am wrong, but what has been scaring me is that these days I've been right a lot more.
You prove that.
How can you, a supposed life long Democrat vote for an almost Libertarian Republican? You can't be voting on the issues. The issues are what we NEED to vote on. This is a crucial point in the history of our nation. To take the gloves off capitalism now will lead us into a depression. Big business is not going to all of a sudden become magnanimous and take care of the little guy. It is going to protect its profits and let us live in shanty towns. This is what will happen if you go McCain. He is not Bush III; Bush is an opportunist. He is a good old fashioned pre-depression politician, who wants small government, no regulation in the private sector, and an end to universal healthcare. Our nation will collapse under the weight of its own creature comforts with McCain at the helm. Don't let his patriotic banter fool you.
Dear God, let me be wrong on this.
Aero10:38AMApr 3rd 2008
The media has convinced me that I should not vote for either democratic candidate. The love affair they have with one makes me skeptical, and the war they have on the other one makes me question the love affair they have with the other. Yes, the media have decided my vote.
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Sheri9:23AMApr 3rd 2008
Yes we can! From a typical white female! Obama08