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Bush Shielded from Interrogations Discussions
By Mark ImpomeniApr 11th 2008 8:45AM
Filed Under:eBush Administration, Breaking News, Dick Cheney, Terror
The Associated Press reports that top officials in the Bush Administration met regularly in the White House to discuss and authorize various harsh interrogation methods in the years after the September 11th attacks. A former senior intelligence official told the AP that the meetings among so-called "principles" in the Administration took place in the White House Situation room and involved Vice-President Cheney, former Attorney General John Ashcroft, former Secretary of State Colin Powell, former CIA director George Tenet, and then National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice. President Bush was not involved in any of the meetings at which enhanced interrogation methods were discussed.Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-MA) released a statement upon learning of the reports, saying, "Who would have thought that in the United States of America in the 21st century, the top officials of the executive branch would routinely gather in the White House to approve torture?" But that misses the most revealing aspect of this information. It has been widely known that the Administration ordered the use of enhanced interrogation techniques against terrorist detainees. What has not been known until now was the length Administration officials, including the Vice-President, went to investigate certain interrogation methods, and to protect the President from the potential consequences of those decisions. According to the reports, the group discussed, received legal advice on, and approved methods including waterboarding, all without the president's participation.
The ACLU called for a Congressional investigation into the high-level meetings and the White House's participation in developing the CIA interrogation policy. "With each new revelation, it is beginning to look like the torture operation was managed and directed out of the White House," ACLU legislative director Caroline Fredrickson said.
The report also contains some measure of vindication for the Administration, however. The meetings paint a picture of a concerned group of officials taking care to understand and weigh the costs and benefits of the methods they were considering. CIA officers demonstrated techniques, lawyers from the Justice Department analyzed the legality of them, and the principles themselves debated their necessity. Ashcroft, as first reported by ABC News on Wednesday, is reported to have been uncomfortable with the meetings, asking, "Why are we talking about this in the White House?" While the Administration opponents would not agree that the interrogation program was legal, the reports of the meetings indicate that it was not the result of a rogue Administration running amok, but was carefully considered and debated.
Vice-President Cheney's role in developing the interrogation program will serve as fodder for those who believe that he has been the architect of the Administration's war on terror policy from the beginning. And the fact that Cheney kept the president from being intimately involved in the discussions over interrogation methods will add to his already notorious reputation as a behind-the-scenes operator. But it has long been the practice of high-level Administration officials of both parties to protect the president from knowledge of potentially controversial actions. The practice even has a name, "plausible denaibility." President Bush once famously referred to himself as, "the decider." On interrogation methods, at least, the decisions appear to have been made for him.
Recent Comments
(Page 1 of 2)tfitz10179:20AMApr 11th 2008
"The meetings paint a picture of a concerned group of officials taking care to understand and weigh the costs and benefits of the methods they were considering. CIA officers demonstrated techniques, lawyers from the Justice Department analyzed the legality of them, and the principles themselves debated their necessity."
From our earlier discussion of detainee treatment you voiced the opinion that we can't really discuss the torture of detainees because, aside from the big three, there is no proof that anyone else was tortured. What were these gentlemen discussing then, exactly?
"But it has long been the practice of high-level Administration officials of both parties to protect the president from knowledge of potentially controversial actions. The practice even has a name, "plausible deniability." President Bush once famously referred to himself as, "the decider." On interrogation methods, at least, the decisions appear to have been made for him."
Thank you for pointing out the precedent for the "plausible deniability" tactic. Do you really think that Bush can plausibly deny knowledge of these torture programs? Why should he bother? If nothing they did was illegal, what is he protecting himself from, exactly?
Mark Impomeni9:38AMApr 11th 2008
tfitz1017,
From our earlier discussion, I made the point that you could not definitively say that anyone was tortured because it has not been proven in any court. That you and other Administration critics believe it to have happened does not make it a certainty. Nothing I wrote in this piece contradicts my earlier arguments.
At base, our disagreement is over the definition of torture. You would likely argue that sleep deprivation, slaps, shoves, humiliation, and wateboarding constitute torture. I do not.
As for plausible deniability, I don't agree that the fact that the president was kept out of these meetings means by default that the subject matter to be discussed was known to be illegal. Administration officials shield the president from controversial activities not just to protect him from legal liabilites, but also to protect the image of the Office of the Presidency and the Administration's leader.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Sincerely,
Mark Impomeni
neil9:53AMApr 11th 2008
this is not about kennedy..1969 is over..he missed up two peoples lifes..bush on the other hand has the blood of 4000 soldiers and 100,000s of iraqis on his hand..thats the real deal..all u guys who are backing bush and mccain get off your fat asses and go and enlist..the army is taking people up till the age of 42...other wise shot the hell up..oh yeah i served for 6 years..
Budo10:52AMApr 11th 2008
Tjis dicator type narcissistic dolt has caused everlasting and ongoing damage to the infrastructure of this country and America around the world. Once again he is immune to REAL discussion. In later years it will undoudtedly be found he was one of the WORST two or three presidents in our history. He should be proud, BUT then again what does he care!?
anam11:40AMApr 11th 2008
this president never lied, has told us up front exactly what he planned whether people liked it or not - he acted inititally on the same info that the Clintons and everyone else in Washington had and what had been reported to the public for YEARS - that Hussein has WMDs - he has done what he thought was best for us and kept us informed at every step even when it weas unpopular - he is human and humans can't always predict what the outcomes of their actions will be - but leaders have to lead! Hopefully for all of us history will prove him to have been on the right path.
anam12:03PMApr 11th 2008
I forgot - about interrogations - I don't care what they do to those dirty hairball terrorists- if it keeps our kids safe - I thank them for taking on something I don't want to have to do knowing that they will have to take heat for it - as for you neil -I don't smoke and you are the one who is sitting in the safety of this nation griping and screaming - go somewhere and make a difference - and budo - if we did live under a dictator a squad would be on its way to your house to arrest you for your comment - so just be thankful that we have this great system where dum-dums like you can scream stupidities for all to hear without consequence
anam12:29PMApr 11th 2008
oh goodness neil I feel like we are at the point where one of us should be saying na na na boo boo stick your face in doo doo - grow up - did you get kicked out of the military?
mikem12:35PMApr 11th 2008
since when does a plane disintegrate when it hits the ground? WHERE IS FLIGHT 93???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-59kouBgO_s&NR=1
neil3:01PMApr 11th 2008
anam..PLEASE GIVE SOME OF WHAT U ARE SMOKING...either u r a fool..or just a idiot..why r u not in iraq rightnow..oh yeah...u are chicken shit...sitting behind a key board all day...be a man,..enlist ..i dear u..bush lied about wmd...lied bin laden..bush family and bin laden family are business partners..wake up///
neil3:01PMApr 11th 2008
u r funny..how can someone so smart be so dumb...no had honorable discharge..plenty of medals..have close friends of mine who have died in iraq..so when i speak i speak from living experience ..not from what u see on tv...when i feel pain..its real..have u ever wrapped your arms around a grieving widow..i have...have u ever watched little children cry because their dad is not coming home...i have...so anam if you haven't lived that life..SHOUT THE HELL UP..OR GO AND ENLIST...or do thing its only 18 and 19 yearolds are suppose to fight for your rights..that u love so much..ANAM..MAN UP..ENLIST...WWW.GOARMY.COM...
neil3:02PMApr 11th 2008
hahahaa..listen when i was in desert storm u were over here doing nothing like u r doing now..yes i served for 6 years..how many have u served...not hearing nothing...the reason why u don't torture is easy..if u torture them ,there r going to torture our kids..and we won't have a ground to stand on..(2) information gotten from torture are about 50% wrong..so anam..man up and enlist
bonbon6:14PMApr 11th 2008
if Presdient William Jefferson Clinton could be tried for having a liason with ML then there is no reason Bush should not be held responsible for knowing and condoning torture.
I understand and agree it is a fine line, between torture and interrogation and the security of this nation comes first.
falling7:32PMApr 11th 2008
Sorry Neil, but as the mother of a son currently serving his third term in Iraq you just don't come across as a genuine. I too have wrapped my arms around the mother of a dead son, the wife of a dead husband and every single time they told me that they understood what their loved one had died for, even if the average American no longer did. If you truly did serve side by side with the wonderful men and women in our military for six years and you are still as uninformed and immature as your posts indicate, I can only feel sorry for you.
--------------------------------------------
neil3:01PMApr 11th 2008
u r funny..how can someone so smart be so dumb...no had honorable discharge..plenty of medals..have close friends of mine who have died in iraq..so when i speak i speak from living experience ..not from what u see on tv...when i feel pain..its real..have u ever wrapped your arms around a grieving widow..i have...have u ever watched little children cry because their dad is not coming home...i have...so anam if you haven't lived that life..SHOUT THE HELL UP..OR GO AND ENLIST...or do thing its only 18 and 19 yearolds are suppose to fight for your rights..that u love so much..ANAM..MAN UP..ENLIST...WWW.GOARMY.COM...
DavesRaves2:16AMApr 12th 2008
CARR- YOU SAY THAT ANYONE WHO DEFENDS GEORGE BUSH IS IN DIRE NEED OF AN ENEMA. WHAT DO YOU BASE YOUR OPINION ON? PLEASE SPARE ME THE SAME OLD CNN, MSNBC, DAN RATHER, AND THE REST OF THE BIASED, HATE-BUSH RHETORIC AND GIVE ME SOME FACTUAL EXAMPLES.
philfan338:40AMApr 12th 2008
I find it hard to imagine that the commander in chief could be left out of the loop on such an important decision.
anam10:56PMApr 12th 2008
mikem - did you really ask "since when does a plane disintegrate when it hits the ground?" I mean I had to rub my eyes - really hard - walk away, and then come back and re-read this again - ok here goes - big bad terrorist points plane at ground while fighting with real American hero - plane hits ground VERY FAST - boom it disintegrates - cuz they don't bounce! Did everybody get that? was it clear?
Jack F. Doyle12:18PMApr 13th 2008
It's the old DENIABILITY trick the Nazi Republicans play so well.Ask Scooter Libby how it works ,he knows the details.
Jack F. Doyle12:19PMApr 13th 2008
It's the old DENIABILITY trick the Nazi Republicans play so well.Ask Scooter Libby how it works ,he knows the details.
mikem12:48PMApr 13th 2008
anam10:56PMApr 12th 2008
mikem - did you really ask "since when does a plane disintegrate when it hits the ground?" I mean I had to rub my eyes - really hard - walk away, and then come back and re-read this again - ok here goes - big bad terrorist points plane at ground while fighting with real American hero - plane hits ground VERY FAST - boom it disintegrates - cuz they don't bounce! Did everybody get that? was it clear?
-----------------------------------------------------
You have never seen a plane crash before??? They do not disintegrate or in other words dissappear!! They do break up into smaller pieces - where are the engines, a tail section, the wings, parts of the fusaloge, seats, anything???? Watch the video!!!
since when does a plane DISSAPEAR when it hits the ground? WHERE IS FLIGHT 93???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-59kouBgO_s&NR=1
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DavesRaves9:17AMApr 11th 2008
WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT, IN THE 21st CENTURY, WE WOULD HAVE A U.S. SENATOR WHO GOT DRUNK BACK IN 1969, CRASHED HIS CAR INTO A CHANNEL, TURNING IT OVER, THEN GOT OUT AND WALKED AWAY LEAVING HIS FEMALE COMPANION TO DROWN. AND WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT HE WOULD STILL BE A U.S. SENATOR TO THIS DAY, CRITICIZING THE ETHICS OF AN ADMINISTRATION AND IT'S TECHNIQUES OF EXTRACTING INFORMATION FROM AL-QEADA MEMBERS AFTER 3000 AMERICANS WERE KILLED ON 9/11.