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Hillary the Decider?
May 2nd 2008 1:00PM
Filed Under:eHillary Clinton, Democrats, Economy, 2008 President
Dickerson: The expertise that Senator Clinton is claiming on the economy seems kind of at odds with the fact that you've got a broad ideologically-diverse group of experts who basically panned this idea of lifting the gas tax and one of the reasons they panned it is that they don't believe that the money is going to regular folks is actually going to happen. So, how is it that so many people of so many different backgrounds could be so wrong on this and are there any independent experts used that can give us some intellectual ballast for the Clinton plan?This sounded nauseatingly familiar to me. The call ran short before I could ask a follow-up, so I sent it to them via email yesterday.
Singer: There are times when a President will take a position when a broad concensus of "experts" will agree and there are times when a President will do something that a group of "experts" does not agree with and this is something that Senator Clinton believes is the right policy... Presidents listen to advice and then act and that is what Senator Clinton is doing.
(You were) asked if you could produce any independent experts who think that the gas tax holiday is a good idea, and you could not. You said, essentially, that a President listens to experts and then acts, in this case ignoring all of them. How would you differentiate that from something like George W Bush and the Iraq Study Group?Here's the complete audio from the call. After the jump, more on this conference call, and the difference between Hillary, the Decider and George W. Bush, the Decider.
Before I get to the Decider question, I want to share with you the entirety of my exchange with Howard Wolfson.
TC: I have two questions. First of all, Senator Clinton has been reaching out to blue-collar voters, most recently commuting to work with and pumping gas with a steel worker yesterday or the day before, but then on The O'Reilly Factor last night, she said, and I quote, "Rich people, God bless us. We deserve all the opportunities to make sure our country and our blessings continue to the next generation." I think that that begs the question, is she trying to have it both ways...like, who is she really going to look out for? And my second question has to do with that "Screw 'em" comment. When we last left off, you had produced three people who couldn't remember her making that comment, but she hadn't denied making it herself. I want to know if Senator Clinton has denied making that comment herself at this point?First of all, I went back and listened, and there is zero doubt that she said the reverse-Tiny-Tim-esque "Rich People. God Bless Us."Which kind of renders the rest of Wolfson's reply moot. As for the "Screw 'em" question, I think what he was trying to say was, "I thought you guys forgot about that."
Wolfson: The same question is, she said she denied making it at the time. I'm not sure if she was asked. This is a little bit of an old chestnut both in terms of when it was made and in terms of the questions we've been getting in the last several days, so it was denied at the time. I don't know if she was ever asked.
I'm not sure I understand your first question. Senator Clinton and her husband have clearly been beneficiaries of living in a great country and they have done well since leaving the White House. No one disputes that, everyone knows that, but she is still waking up every day and fighting hard on behalf of working people. The reason why we have done so well with blue-collar voters and working people in Ohio and Pennsylvania, in particular, is because working people know that and they appreciate it. Maybe I did not understand the question, but that's my answer.
TC: But the statement that she made, it sounds to me like she is saying "God bless rich people, God bless us. We deserve all the opportunities for our country."
Wolfson: No, no, no! She said "God blessed, B-L-E-S-S-E-D." Right?
TC: That's not how I heard it, but I can go back and check, though.
Wolfson: No, I understand. She is fortunate to have done well in this country and she thanks God for her blessings and, as many fortunate people do, the important point is that when she talked about this that people like her and Bill O'Reilly probably have been blessed and they ought to be paying their fair share. She said that this often comes up in the context of what to do about the Bush tax cuts and she says that people like she and Bill O'Reilly ought to be paying the rates that they were during the Clinton..., before President Bush passed them; that they have a responsibility to make sure that prosperity in our country is a shared prosperity. Whenever I've heard her talking about this, it has been in the context of, that we ought to have a country where people have the opportunity to be successful but people who enjoy success because of the blessings of this country ought to be willing to make sure that we have an economy where prosperity is shared, including through our tax system. I never heard her say anything different from that.
He claimed not to understand my question, but I thought it was pretty clear. Now, why does any of this matter? Do I really think that Hillary Clinton is toasting cigar-chomping, handlebar-mustachioed dandies over her thorough bamboozlement of working class voters?
Of course not, but the statement was clearly a wink to affluent voters, a way of saying, "Sure, I want to help working stiffs, but don't worry, I won't hurt us rich folks too badly."
Which is smart politics, as far as it goes, but tone-deaf on the heels of trying to paint Barack Obama as an elitist, then not being able to pump her own gas while proclaiming that she does have friends who tell her what it's like to get hosed at the pump. It is the kind of quote that the Clinton campaign would have turned into a bumper sticker had Obama said it.
What amazes me is the brazen way Wolfson just lies about it. I wonder if he had that lie ready, or did he come up with it on the fly? Now, here's the trick: He knows we can all go back and check, but by the time we do that and follow up with him, he can call it an "old chestnut."
Now, on to the subject of ignoring all the experts, and just deciding. The Clinton campaign has not responded to my follow-up question yet, but that's okay, I think I can handle this one. Singer offered up a wrong-headed defense. He can't just say, "Hey, it sounded good when we thought of it."
But by invoking the "Decider Defense," he further legitimizes the fallacy that decisiveness is, in itself, a virtue.
The Clinton team is deft and nimble at keeping itself a moving target, with a bag of tricks that would make Felix the Cat jealous. Even Clinton opponents express admiration at the sheer nerve and breakneck swerve of the campaign. Time will tell if they can stay ahead, or will it all catch up to them.
Standing at Hillary's podium in Philadelphia, I wondered if, believing that I truly could fix what's wrong with America, there was anything I wouldn't say or do to make sure I was given that chance. Anyone worthy of the job knows the answer to that. The trick is saying and doing things that help.
Recent Comments
(Page 1 of 13)Concerned American1:42PMMay 2nd 2008
HOW CAN OBAMA??? He has the poorest judgement of all three candidates. Obama made $4.5 million last year.
REPORTED ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will tell you what will "DAMAGE" the democratic party. If we let the press decide who needs to be president.
Senator Obama has shown incrediablly "BAD" judgement with his associations and judgement.
Please read link to understand Senator Obama political career in Chicago. He is a 1st-term senator.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0804/S00064.htm
After you read that he has had to donate over $250,000 dollars from his presidential campaign over corrupt associations in Chicago then why would you want him to be president?
He has no experience so his judgement MATTERS! Obama's district where he was senator is full of gangs and abandon buidlings where Rezko stop paying on loans "STATE MONEY" that Senator Obama and the others helped him receive from the housing commissioners.
If you add Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers (Whom he has still not denounced?) and Tony Rezko.. Why should he be president?????
If all of this came out at the beginning he would not be in the lead but the "BIASED" media does not shine a light on that fact.
WE HAVE HAD 8 YEARS OF INEXPERIENCE IN THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT AND NO ONE WANTS TO MAKE THAT MISTAKE AGAIN!!!
OBAMA HAS A "BAD" JUDGEMENT ISSUE and you are over too many lives as president to not take that SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE READ LINK BEFORE YOU VOTE!
I OBOT1:50PMMay 2nd 2008
Obama "The Deigner"
HillarySucks1:58PMMay 2nd 2008
Hillary is just bad..bad for the economy, bad for the people, bad for the country...unfortunately one thing she is really good at is lying..until she gets caught. Ebough..she is blessed becasue she made 109 million sicne 2003..we get that..stop lying..that is exactly what she said..the lying skank stikes again..and she has the nerve to call Obama an elitist. Another word for hyprocrite....2 syllables..Clin-ton.
jc2:00PMMay 2nd 2008
Am not rich, however do not think rich people are not
bad. So many have given alot of money to colleges and
to help many. So being rich is not a bad thing.
would many of you like to be able to give money for
other people to help them?
Clinton has been a work horse in this run for the
canidate for the Dems. I give her alot of credit on that. I do not know who I will vote for in the end of
this however the more I have been learning of Obama
have a great many question about him. Thought he was
interesting in the start, but now do not believe he
has the best interest of the USA now. Am very sad that he was not who he said he was in the start of this.
Crystal2:04PMMay 2nd 2008
Mr. Christopher? Remember when Obama pretended to dust Hillary off of his shoulder, suggesting she was a mere piece of lint? Maybe that's what the Clinton camp is doing to you!
Peggy2:07PMMay 2nd 2008
"Tommy, I watched the interview and it was clear she said God blessed us. I've also listened to the tape. It's not real clear but it still sounds like God blessed us.
I'm disappointed in you, Tommy Boy. If this is the best Hillary bashing you can do, maybe you ought
to take a day or two off, get some rest, pop a few more Obama happy pills and try to get your brain working again."
I posted this yesterday and it sounds like it still holds true. Evidently you are also having hearing problems due to listening to so much "hope and change". You really need to take some time off. Your man is down in the polls and I know you don't have much time to make things better for him before the next two primaries. But surely he can speak for himself for a day or two. Or, can he???
Diana2:14PMMay 2nd 2008
More from Slate's John Dickerson:
Embracing intellectual obtuseness and deflecting criticism with charges of elitism is a tactic George Bush often deployed while campaigning. It's striking to see Clinton do it because she has been a regular and harsh critic of Bush's blindness to expert opinion. It's even more striking to hear her aides actually sound like Bush administration officials. When I asked Communications Director Howard Wolfson if the Clinton team could offer any intellectual ballast for the gas-tax vacation, given that so many policymakers had criticized it, he said, "The presidency requires leadership. … There are times when the president does something that the group of experts, quote unquote, does not agree with. Presidents get advice and then act, and that is what Senator Clinton is doing." Or, as George Bush used to put it: A leader leads. Even if off a cliff.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tommy.....without debating the merits of the gas tax or lack thereof, I have to admit that you two make a good point in your comparisons with the Bush-style tactics of Hillary's campaign advisors. Listening to the audios of the Clinton Conference Calls over the past few weeks (and transcribing them) has been a most enlightening experience. When in doubt, put on the spot or stumped by a question, just LIE. Never mind the getting caught part.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I found this comment on You Tube's Veracifier channel very apt and amusing:
I didn't used to listen to the Clinton Conference Calls, but recently started because I was curious as to, what is really going on, and how are they going to spin it? Now it's the most entertaining video on youtube, Veracifier, you need to keep those as classics, I want to be able to go back, 5, 10, 20 years from now, and have a laugh.
Tommy Christopher2:22PMMay 2nd 2008
Peggy,
I'm not bashing Hillary, first of all, and she said "God Bless Us." It's a ridiculous argument, and it is hilarious to me that you would accuse anyone of bias when you won't even believe your own ears. Or the official transcript. Or the context.
bonbon2:22PMMay 2nd 2008
one word, just one word and you all jump on it like she just committed the worst crime possible.
I have listened to that clip, several times.
and I ask each of you
ever been talking to someone, trying very hard to get your point across, and mispoken, were you so passionate about what you were saying, that it just came out wrong.
no, never, not even once. bulls==t
what I got from Hillary is that she meant people who have been blessed, should do all they can to help others acheive some part of those same blessings.
and I agree.
Tommy Christopher2:26PMMay 2nd 2008
BonBon,
no she didn't. And who cares? So she pandered a little. But when the campaign tries to say she said the opposite of what she actually said, it destroys their credibility on other things.
joedenver602:36PMMay 2nd 2008
Tommy......we live in a country that exists on a captalisic economy.... That is what we are...I have read, as well as, heard your question that her remark was kind of elitist to some degree, referring that she was fortunate to be wealthy....I on the other had interpreted that she and other who are wealthy are blessed to be from this country to earn what they deserve, and should pay for their fair share in taxes or share responsibility to share the expierence with their families to become successful.........Tommy.. you suprised me, are you a far left liberal?
D. L. GRAHAM2:39PMMay 2nd 2008
DUMB! DUMB! AND DUMBER!
(D-NY)US/Senator Hillary Rodham-Clinton needs to really think about leaving politics, and joining her former impeached President husband in semi, if not complete retirement as Billy's “post bypass surgery cognitive dysfunction, Pump Head Dimentia" takes it's grip on him.
The United States infrastructure is falling apart, and Hillary comes up with a two-step too many plan to try and get a vote plan? Whatever came of (KISS) "Keep It Simple Stupid"?
First, Hillary's going to have a gas tax holiday, and expect the oil companies not to say, well if they don't want it, we'll just up the price and take it.
Second, Hillary's going to slap the oil companies with a "Windfall Profits Tax"? Let's see the (11%) Democratic Majority has done how well in ending the Iraq War, and bring the troops home as promised? Don't hold your breath on any "Windfall Profits Tax'!
So, were do that leave the infrastructure with the tax removed? Well, at least a half million workers laid off in the middle of the construction season, but that's not all it also means that steel, concrete, various construction equipment is not being purchased or upgrades or replaced due to damage, and the infrastructrer well it's not taking a holiday from weaking and falling apart.
Well, what do we do? MASS TRANSPORTATION! Less car's alot more bus's, get the train system improved as the one's The United States built in Europe and Japan. "Take The Bus Leave The Driving To US", "Piggy Back" Trucks.
Stop the pandering for vote's of a out of touch and out of era old time politician, we need change, and that means "NEW ERA" Thinking. This is not the (60's) we don't need a (61) year old and a (64) year old with "Dimentia" now, we need younger think, the Era of Change is not only now, but now with an urgency.
PONYRIDER2:39PMMay 2nd 2008
tommy and david knowless are both in the toilet for obama...they both get nasty when obama is going down the toilet. say ggodbye and flush that damn toilet of obama and his supporters.
bonbon2:41PMMay 2nd 2008
now what about what she did say, how about remembering and focusing all she did say in that interview. how she handled herself. her ideas.
and her courage her grace, her strength, and style, her teancity and perseverance.
how her solutions that will help this great nation, that have such merit, Obama simply copied them.
how about we focus on the entire interview, and not just one word.
Diana2:45PMMay 2nd 2008
Given my last comment, I now have to state vociferously that I support Hillary's candidacy wholeheartedly and believe that her comments were misconstrued to make her appear elitist. I believe that she intended to say that the well-to-do in our society have a responsibility to carry the burden of the less-advantaged, if you will. My issue only pertains to the occasional evasiveness and ill-advised tactics of her tireless and irrepressible campaign advisors.
m2:50PMMay 2nd 2008
who has spent most of his time apologizing for misspoken words, words taken out of context, oh wait i was fatiged and did not mean it that way. hmmm was his name obama? look his lime light is coming to end and the hillary bashing starts all over again. the more that comes out of his mouth and his supporters makes me want to vote for hillary just that much more. go hillary. some day the media will grow up hopefully before it is to late.
RURAL-SMALL-TOWN-AMERICAN2:53PMMay 2nd 2008
Do not be fooled by the charisma of this man --- he clearly resents America and wants to "change" it in the way “anti-Americans” want it to be shaped.
Obama has no experience, poor judgment, no credibility nor loyalty toward the USA. He is just a cynical, arrogant political opportunist with no wisdom. For months, Barack Hussein Obama has been talking about fundamental "Change."
Most of us wonder what kind of change he wants? He has not been able to tell us. If we connect the dots --- we can get a pretty good idea of the kind of change Obama is talking about: He is being endorsed by anti-Americans and terrorists Ayers, Wright, Farrakhan, Rezko, and many other people who hate America. He is for the black supremacist and far-left anti-American ideology running things.
His ideas of change are a combination of the ultimate liberal wet dream and America's worst nightmare.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! HE’S OUTSPENT HILLARY 4 TO 1 AND STILL CAN’T STOP HER! OUR COUNTRY IS NOT FOR SALE! WE HAVE 50 STATES --- NOT 48! NO BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA!
CLEARLY, HILLARY CLINTON IS THE WISER CHOICE TO REPRESENT DEMOCRATS THIS FALL.
tedman182:55PMMay 2nd 2008
NEWS
REALITY
HRC NOW FAVORED OVER BO NATION WIDE BY DEM’S
BO since Sunday is down about 4 points and HRC is up about 4 points in the
tracking polls – averaging the two major national daily tracking polls.
This is an average 8 point gain for HRC and she is in the lead in both polls.
BO vs. McCain has moved from his leading to McCain leading in statistically significant fashion. HRC leads or is tied with McCain (See Gallup See Rasmussen)
If you think its not REV WRIGHT read this neutral honest polling news out today.
http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/58_say_obama_denounced_wright_for_political_convenience_not_outrage
This could be a game changer pro HRC – or even good for BO
Right now – reality – BO has fallen far and fast on a relative basis. He does hit his core followers at 44-45%. – But it appears for now, that he has lost the 4-6% of DEM voters that swing back and forth between he and HRC.
The question is – over the next few weeks can he regain them and the 49-51% he was polling in these two polls as of last week.
For now – the news of the last two days in the rolling average daily tracking polls is spreading and “normal” people and “super” people with their Sunday Paper will know the large amount BO has fallen and HRC has gained.
1. The eyes on IN and NC that were laser focused are now NUCLEAR laser exponential focused. That stakes – high enough last week – are doubled down – and CNN FOX and MSNBC are the only clear winners.
2. If after the results (pro HRC spin or pro BO spin) – BO - can regain his footing (assuming he does not simply go back up in polls by Monday or Tuesday) -- say BO does get back over the next few weeks in the daily polling to the old 48-50% -- then he will have shown muscle and ability and a toughness he has not so far shown (Testicular fortitude or grit are the coin of the realm). If he regains an even or better showing in the daily polls – the game is over in his favor IMO.
But if he stays below HRC and stays below McCain --- then the super delegates take 1000 Tylenol and 200 Solomon pills as the job ahead is no fun – no precedent – important – and bound to anger half the people.
Hang tight – but vote DEM DEM or DEM --- never never McCain
tedman182:56PMMay 2nd 2008
Tommy -
Yes I am a HRC first person - and BO second and never MCBUSH
But time to say it - you are full of shimt on this rich and middle class issue
Wolfson said what she said - if there was a D or not
She said - and I will add words - cause we know what she AND BO feel and its about the same (its a question of what other people believe they believe)
This is a great country
Capitalism works - and we (HRC and now BO) have benefitted from college and capitalism and effort
We are not socialists - we do not hate the rich - we like the ability of people to get rich and many of us are rich and have friends who are rich and richer (see our list of donors)
We - the rich - at least some of us - did not ask for the Bush tax cuts to favor us so so much
We - the rich - at least some of us - will gladly pay more on Cap Gains (the old Clinton rate) - and more in income tax - the old graduated to 39% on income over xyz
And we need to use the tax system and congressional actions to better distriute the wealth
(Left unsaid - at the best - the Lorenz curve will always favor the rich (10% with say 70% of wealth) - but over the last 7 years the distribution to the top 1-2% has been INANE WILD AND INSANE --- so much so it reminds us of the BARONS that Teddy Roosevelt went after - the monopolies etc (and she did mention TR)
That was her message - it is the BO message re tax - it is the left of moderate (Biden - Dodd - BO - HRC) message - more sharing of the wealth - more regulation of oil and banks and hedge funds - but leave capitalism out there and free enterprise and reward effort and achievment
A Kucinich and maybe and Edwards are to the left of that - and McCain is far to the right of that - but not as much as the Cheny and Bush greed crowd
I think you were totally unfair and biased in this blog - more so then in the past - and it was beneath even a BO supporter to spin as you did
Do you really think the above - as I laid it out is NOT the message of BOTH BO and HRC re the economy - congressional action - and tax policy
Re the 18 cents - HRC makes the case it is
A first step against oil companies WHEN combined with her over profit tax --- and starts a ball rolling the right direction towards taking on the big oil companies in general on mileage and other issues
The 18 cents itself - her and McCain say - that is not a lot - that is temporary - and most of the help is small but every dime counts for the poorest drivers
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ruthe1:20PMMay 2nd 2008
this is so dumb how can hillbilly talk to ahem poor people low income folks when she's so damn rich sounds like a paradox to me but then again hillbilly is full of them full of something else too